Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

This one is tough for me. I certainly agree with some aspects, but not with others. Firstly, some comparisons to FFXI are unwarranted, I believe. You see, in FFXI there were barely any mechanics to bosses. They were incredibly easy to learn, and required even less skill to accomplish. The challenge mostly came from the time dedication you had to make as far as waiting.

With FFXIV, is it a bit too mechanics-oriented? Yes, I can agree with that. However, I like feeling more like I'm playing a game and being able to move and dodge as opposed to standing still. It is tough, on the other hand, because it does mean I often have to rely on others to be able to do that as well, which the OP touched upon. So, I feel right in the middle about that point, tough to say what I think here.

Also, as far as the "random" factor is concerned, there is some of that, currently in fights, such as conflags in T5 (as far as who they target), landslide/plumes in Titan EX, and the tank swapping in Ifrit EX. I'm sure this can and will be expanded upon with future encounters, but just pointing out that we do have some of that already.

More openness with party structure, yes I would definitely agree with. I think (and hope) that this is in the works already, considering the expansions to CT and possibility of Support roles being an option. We do have some, such as queuing as a solo tank or 2 tank or 3 healer or whatever. I know it's not exactly what was meant by OP, and still not exactly what I want to see, but it is there.

I'm not a fan of his/her view on lockouts, unfortunately. That is a system I'm currently comfortable with and would not like to see changed to trigger items or some such thing. I don't mind trigger items being an option for new content or something, horizontally-speaking, but not for BC or anything.

So all in all, I agree with some but not all of the points. Still an interesting post.

EDIT: I'd like to add that, not to piss on anyone's parade or anything, but it is probably much harder to all of a sudden change some of these things at once. They have a development schedule, which they stick fairly close to. Overhauling a battle system is not likely. It's not exactly a "You know what? You're right! *flips switch*" kind of situation. What is likely, or possible, however, would be to do this in increments. Tweaks here and there. Which is already kind of happening, if you look for it.

Pretty much nailed it, especially the Second Coil feels like it tries to throw in a lot of mechanics just for the sake of overconvolution and some of them just happen because they do and sure they make sense and might be cake once you figure them out, but before that especially going in blind for the first time you just kind of have to guess why and when it happens by trail and error and doesn't really feel like it flows as naturally as other fights for lack of a better word to express it, you are indeed dancing way more around the mechanics than you're actually fighting the boss. There's a thin balance between what a boss does and what happens around it and I agree the dungeons and the first Coil get that balance right, while T5 onwards lean towards the weighted mechanics side, it's fine because they're all beatable and really not that hard when you know the dance, it just doesn't feel as fun as other fights in the game but hey some people like everything in the game regardless so props to them. He also nailed the part about statics and lockouts, shame it's another meanie mean post not praising the game, time to ignore it into the trash it goes, right.

Again! Agree 100% with OP post!

well actually I just came up for an idea on the whole throw more people at it to make it easier. People want to know the story right with the whole coil and the allagans and its sure to lead to something eventually. Why don't we cater to all parties.

What do people think of this idea.

8 man coil - keep it simple have some mechanics but this is more catered to the casual crowd but does reward gear towards progressing to 16 man
16 man coil - gets heated up and will become a wall for a lot of people but does reward gear progressing to 24 man coil
24 man coil - more aimed at the hardcore and maybe some mainstream if they make it.

16/24 man coil would be completely optional and really just there to challenge people who are looking for the challenge and this would stop the wall as everyone progresses to 3rd coil for there tier.

To be honest they wouldn't need to do much to add to 16/24 coil. More boss HP, More damage and more rotations maybe add another couple mechanics for 16 man and then a couple more for 24 man.

This might be seen as a horrible idea but meh just thought of it on the spot sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Roris

He also nailed the part about statics and lockouts, shame it's another meanie mean post not praising the game, time to ignore it into the trash it goes, right.

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The OP made a lot of points, about several different things. I think it's only fair to look at parts of it, and not as a whole. Like I said in my post, I agree with some things, but not others. Not to mention the fact that you can't exactly just change these sorts of things at once, as it would require a lot of reprogramming.

The attitude isn't helping.

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

OP hits perfectly the point on what has been bugging me since i cleared twinty a few weeks ago and tried to get other fc members there as well. besides all the rummaging about being hardcore and skillzzz, i simply think that current endgame design is simply no fun.

currently my fc is working on t6 and every time they get back from dozens of wipes there's a cold, bitter and disappointed atmosphere in fc chat. that's not exactly what i would expect from a game feature whose reason of existence is to keep people tied to the game.

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That's because the current mechanics being so rigid can make one mistake a wipe. The same person makes that same mistake multiple times and I don't care how friendly you are with them frustration creeps in. Or you get that sorted and then somebody else misses one thing and causes a wipe on something they've done a million times and, boom, wipe again. More frustration. And I think the fact that fights go almost exactly the same every single time just adds to the frustration because, well, repetition is usually frustrating on its own let alone in a group setting.

It would just be nice if there was more variance in mechanics overall. Meaningful resistances for both players and bosses. Functional CC that could add more support from a class and change strategies. Mechanics that punish mistakes by forcing a change of plan, the use of cooldowns or spells you weren't planning on for instance, and in turn make the fight harder and longer but don't necessarily illicit a "just wipe" from the group because you'll never recover before the next phase pops so just start over.

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Originally Posted by Cap75

More frustration. And I think the fact that fights go almost exactly the same every single time just adds to the frustration because, well, repetition is usually frustrating on its own let alone in a group setting.

It would just be nice if there was more variance in mechanics overall. Meaningful resistances for both players and bosses. Functional CC that could add more support from a class and change strategies. Mechanics that punish mistakes by forcing a change of plan, the use of cooldowns or spells you weren't planning on for instance, and in turn make the fight harder and longer but don't necessarily illicit a "just wipe" from the group because you'll never recover before the next phase pops so just start over.

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People dont even have the skill to simply memorize and dodge how the hell are they going to manage all that. There will be alot more frustrations. lol

Encounter design is one of the best things this game does. The very pattern based, very kinetic, very team driven feeling is what makes these types of game shine at cap. If anything we need more of it outside of the end game, that leveling to cap disconnect is a big problem in the genre right now.

When I started seeing examples of FFXI encounter design like it was something to be lauded my eyes just kind of glazed over. I liked that game, for what it was, back in 2005 but there is nothing to learn from it in terms of combat, mechanics, encounters, etc. It was and is a vague and awkward EQ-like with all of the nonsense that comes with that dark ages design methodology.

There are plenty of things this game could use like better itemization, more options and venues for gearing and customizing... Looking back at the dark age of the genre where difficulty was solely fueled by timesinks and vague, almost superstitious nonsense is about the last thing we need to be doing right now.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

People dont even have the skill to simply memorize and dodge how the hell are they going to manage all that. There will be alot more frustrations. lol

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Basically this.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

this seems misguided, as tuning is fairly kind in XIV and there are no hard modes. It's one of the easier MMORPGs out there, it's certainly not on par with the kind of psychotic design you'd see on Heroic mode in Warcraft. Mechanics are tight but it's to make up for the simplicity in formation and customization and gearing. This game has no mechanics or leg-work outside of actual combat.

Encounter design is one of the best things this game does, if it was different I wouldn't be playing it nor would a lot of people. The very pattern based, very kinetic, very team driven feeling is what makes a traditional WoW-like MMO stand out lately.

When I started seeing examples of FFXI encounter design like it was something to be lauded my eyes just kind of glazed over. I like that game, for what it was, but there is nothing to learn from it in terms of combat, mechanics, encounters, etc. It was and is a vague and awkward EQ-clone with all of the terribleness that comes with that dark ages design methodology.

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This game is actually way too easy but its fun so i forgive it, this thread just shows how far the gaming community has fallen if they are having a hard time here..........

It seem that after all the long winded discussion and all the debate, the bottom line is people don't like to have everything riding on instant kill gimmicks.

Well consider titan. How about we throw on RNG into that instant kill move, maybe 30% of the time, in exchange for a player being knocked off, the player is feared/stunned/hysteria/whatever and titan gains back 1/8 of its health for every player hit. And if the health goes back over the 50% you go back to pre-heart phase.

Would a simple change like that be acceptable?

If so then you can extrapolate this into many of the other 1-hit kill mechanics in any other dungeons.

SE is going through some growing pains. If you have played other games, you will realize that mechanics are an interesting and integral part of a fight. A boss is a boss because he or she is a lot stronger and has interesting moves than your basic regular monster. This is why we want to fight the bosses. I do agree, however, that there is a balance to be struck.

This is what I mean.


1. Insta-death mechanics are a bad idea on all but maybe the very final boss of a lengthy, multi-wing raid. Difficulty should progress until this one ultimate boss, and then the difficulty should be figuring out how to avoid or compensate for the attacks.
That brings into number 2
2. Mechanics do not have to be forgiving, but they *should* be implemented in such a way that if one person makes a mistake, the rest of the raid can change their strategy to compensate and bring everyone back to that equilibrium. This is a dynamic environment that you cannot have if one person experienced a brief lag spike and cannot avoid a ground effect.


3. The mechanics should be INTERESTING. There is SO MUCH of strafe out of this, mouse turn and run out of that, etc. Ground effects should supplement the changing dynamics of the fight, but some fights are literally just "don't stand in bad" and that's not a particularly challenging OR interesting boss battle.

SE has some work to do, but in their defense they do also have a lot of really interesting fights. Garuda is one example of an excellently executed multi-phase fight, although it does seep into that "this happens at this time you do this over and over" aspect that the OP was talking about. Still, there will always be some measure of repetition.

I think that we should give SE some time to find their niche in terms of putting together engaging and challenging end game. This is their first truly modern mmo and while many of us have already seen these growing pains over the last decade or so, SE does like to try reinventing the wheel first and what is mainstream second.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

It seem that after all the long winded discussion and all the debate, the bottom line is people don't like to have everything riding on instant kill gimmicks.

Well consider titan. How about we throw on RNG into that instant kill move, maybe 30% of the time, in exchange for a player being knocked off, the player is feared/stunned/hysteria/whatever and titan gains back 1/8 of its health for every player hit. And if the health goes back over the 50% you go back to pre-heart phase.

Would a simple change like that be acceptable?

If so then you can extrapolate this into many of the other 1-hit kill mechanics in any other dungeons.

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Ok this i don't mind because it doesn't affect the actual consequences of the death it just stops titan from being able to 1 shot you

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

i assume bard is your main class... i havent started with second coil yet, because i wanted to save myself the headache, but before the echo nerfs healing in endgame sometimes was like pure gambling. will i neglect this dps and risk the group to wipe to a dps check if he falls or will i heal him and risk the tank to be sqished by the next attack and it's another insta-wipe? there's a lot of this BS going on and the less experienced the group is, the less damage is predictable. there's no room for improvement or recovery if you make a wrong decision.

also, let me help you carry your monstrous virtual manhood, because obviously everyone else is just incompetent casual filth. *rolls eyes*

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im a woman i dont have manhood.
and no i wasn't stroking my metaphorical dick there i was being serious i suck at managing myself and party in mmos but i can still recover quite nicely a large amount of time, why then is everyone else acting like this game is ridiculously unfair and too hard for words?

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

SE is going through some growing pains. If you have played other games, you will realize that mechanics are an interesting and integral part of a fight. A boss is a boss because he or she is a lot stronger and has interesting moves than your basic regular monster. This is why we want to fight the bosses. I do agree, however, that there is a balance to be struck.

This is what I mean.


1. Insta-death mechanics are a bad idea on all but maybe the very final boss of a lengthy, multi-wing raid. Difficulty should progress until this one ultimate boss, and then the difficulty should be figuring out how to avoid or compensate for the attacks.
That brings into number 2
2. Mechanics do not have to be forgiving, but they *should* be implemented in such a way that if one person makes a mistake, the rest of the raid can change their strategy to compensate and bring everyone back to that equilibrium. This is a dynamic environment that you cannot have if one person experienced a brief lag spike and cannot avoid a ground effect.


3. The mechanics should be INTERESTING. There is SO MUCH of strafe out of this, mouse turn and run out of that, etc. Ground effects should supplement the changing dynamics of the fight, but some fights are literally just "don't stand in bad" and that's not a particularly challenging OR interesting boss battle.

SE has some work to do, but in their defense they do also have a lot of really interesting fights. Garuda is one example of an excellently executed multi-phase fight, although it does seep into that "this happens at this time you do this over and over" aspect that the OP was talking about. Still, there will always be some measure of repetition.

I think that we should give SE some time to find their niche in terms of putting together engaging and challenging end game. This is their first truly modern mmo and while many of us have already seen these growing pains over the last decade or so, SE does like to try reinventing the wheel first and what is mainstream second.

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excellent post good sir/madame take my likes, this kind of balance is the kind of suggestion i like and does not degrade the game

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Originally Posted by Foo01

It seem that after all the long winded discussion and all the debate, the bottom line is people don't like to have everything riding on instant kill gimmicks.

Well consider titan. How about we throw on RNG into that instant kill move, maybe 30% of the time, in exchange for a player being knocked off, the player is feared/stunned/hysteria/whatever and titan gains back 1/8 of its health for every player hit. And if the health goes back over the 50% you go back to pre-heart phase.

Would a simple change like that be acceptable?

If so then you can extrapolate this into many of the other 1-hit kill mechanics in any other dungeons.

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Honestly, as smarmy as it might sound, Titan is arguably the single best designed fight in this game and I wouldn't touch it at all. It's in my top five favorite MMO bosses despite being relatively easy compared to my other picks. When you get down to it the "one shot" mechanics are rarely the things that get you in the more meaningful fights in XIV, it's often small breakdowns, personal flubs, resource management, etc, they're almost never the core hurdle.

I wouldn't mind seeing difficulty mode and other things that make changes like this to ease other types of players in, right now the curve is admittedly set to brick wall and the laddering is a bit poor but I really don't want to see the challenge ripped down without something to compensate. I'd love to see better itemization and the such layered on top, not have the games encounters taken down a peg to allow a path for awkward XI style gearing and macro spam.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

Mechanics are tight but it's to make up for the simplicity in formation and customization and gearing. This game has no mechanics or leg-work outside of actual combat.

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I think what the OP is getting at, and what I would have to agree a bit with, would be to have more a balance with this aspect. I would like a bit more number-crunching or variety in viable gear choices (to their credit, this last patch added a lot in that regard). And really, what that would come down to, is more options. Currently, the selection of weapons and the way in which to obtain those weapons is awesome. Definitely would like to see more of this. But that would help continue to create a balance. Don't have time but a lot of skill? Option A. Have a lot of time, but not a lot of skill? Option B. Etc.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

i was being serious i suck at managing myself and party in mmos but i can still recover quite nicely a large amount of time, why then is everyone else acting like this game is ridiculously unfair and too hard for words?

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we need to differentiate a bit here. not everything is unfair and "too hard". mostly, it's those hoops you have to get 7 other people to do perfectly in a 1-2 second span and neither your gear or anything else matters. if one person messes up, BOOM, and you potentially wasted another 10 minutes of your life.

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

OP nailed it.

Lots of fights I just don't care about or won't bother with.. and gear is pointless... if you can't dodge mechanics. So is echo. I've never played a game with so much pointless content that as a casual I won't even bother with trying.

When they come out with new content, you just re-sub, complete it and cancel. There's zero longevity here.

Even quests are pointless... I can play in a DF group and no one has atma/animus or is wasting time on it, because it's pointless and not worth the effort.

Edit to below- Yes this ignores content that is not actually in the game. If they are adding fun casual stuff, that's good. I will reserve making an opinion on unreleased content until it's delivered for play.

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

we need to differentiate a bit here. not everything is unfair and "too hard". mostly, it's those hoops you have to get 7 other people to do perfectly in a 1-2 second span and neither your gear or anything else matters. if one person messes up, BOOM, and you potentially wasted another 10 minutes of your life.

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

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seriously wtf game are you even playing at this point? learning the mechanics is not that hard, you dont have to do it perfectly and 1 mistake will not cost you the entire fight even on the hardest fights.

On a side note: anyone notice how the most boring fights are the ones without mechanics that you oh so hate? like the first boss of AK?

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

*snip*

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im assuming this post is ignoring all the casual content they are adding in 2.3+?

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

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Because without having a tight, interesting puzzle box of an encounter they're almost always dropped within a single night by any group of merit. There needs to be more done to educate outside of videos (which other games do) but the learning curve is what it is unless this entire genre decides to stop latching on to WoW (which, while I like WoW, I'd have like to have seen awhile ago)

The only other solution is vague, EQ-style sinks, which is what the OP wants, what FFXI fans want, and want everyone else on Earth doesn't want.

I will say great post but I don't 100% agree with everything the OP said. Nor does this person represent me.

I like the 50+ dungeons more than the under 50. Even the ones that were grinded for tomes, if not more so. CM, WP, brayflox hm
I like the idea of people working together at a unexpected lvl of play to quickly achieve a goal. I like the idea that not everyone can do it.

I like the idea of once I couldn't do it, now I know how, its not random and I can continue to do it, and teach others.

I also don't mind the idea of echo. sry

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

People dont even have the skill to simply memorize and dodge how the hell are they going to manage all that. There will be alot more frustrations. lol

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Most people react far better than they memorize and enjoy reactive dynamics moreso, hence the extreme popularity of shooters in general and online shooters specifically. And more options allow people to customize their playstyle to something that suits them. Those more adept players in the group can cover the mistakes of others, even if it may drag out the fight. Too many mistakes should always mean certain failure of course but variance would be nice and more thinking on your feet, as opposed to simply executing the same strategy each time, is something i think a lot of people would welcome.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

Because without having a tight, interesting puzzle box of an encounter they're almost always dropped within a single night by any group of merit.

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that's exactly yoship's stance on this. prolong content with fake difficulty. being able to down something by merit is a much more enjoyable experience, no?

this is also tied to the fact that this game basically throws everything else out that would make it an rpg. superlinear gear progression, no elemental weaknesses, no customization that's more than a BiS number game (oh wow, i now heal 10 hp more, my cure is casting 0,01 faster, such difference, let me alter my rotations right away... ahem).

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Originally Posted by Cap75

Most people react far better than they memorize and enjoy reactive dynamics moreso, hence the extreme popularity of shooters in general and online shooters specifically. And more options allow people to customize their playstyle to something that suits them. Those more adept players in the group can cover the mistakes of others, even if it may drag out the fight. Too many mistakes should always mean certain failure of course but variance would be nice and more thinking on your feet, as opposed to simply executing the same strategy each time, is something i think a lot of people would welcome.

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And you could do that in all these encounters, who says they have to memorize they can just react but as you can see, they can't even do that. lol And almost all fights you can recover if you are skilled enough and geared enough. Even if people get knocked out of the fight. Why do you think people can sell clears? Because they are skilled and geared.

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

that's exactly yoship's stance on this. prolong content with fake difficulty. being able to down something by merit is a much more enjoyable experience, no?

this is also tied to the fact that this game basically throws everything else out that would make it an rpg. superlinear gear progression, no elemental weaknesses, no customization that's more than a BiS number game (oh wow, i now heal 10 hp more, my cure is casting 0,01 faster, such difference, let me alter my rotations right away... ahem).

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You must be playing something else because i'm definitely playing an RPG. lol

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

that's exactly yoship's stance on this. prolong content with fake difficulty. being able to down something by merit is a much more enjoyable experience, no?

this is also tied to the fact that this game basically throws everything else out that would make it an rpg. superlinear gear progression, no elemental weaknesses, no customization that's more than a BiS number game (oh wow, i now heal 10 hp more, my cure is casting 0,01 faster, such difference, let me alter my rotations right away... ahem).

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and now i know you are trolling, by this logic kingdom hearts is not an rpg nor is final fantasy XV because they have different elements than mentioned here.......please stop you are embarrassing yourself
oh and "no customization"? srsly?

I think a lot of people are taking the Blog Post out of context or just ignoring the main point.

He's basically arguing that

A) Hardcore players tend to find mechanics driven fights boring (Arguably true)
B) Casual players tend to be incapable of coping with them (Likely)
C) This disconnect leads to people being booted/inability to find a static (100% true)

Nobody wants to be held back by the one guy who doesn't know what he's doing. One person can ruin your entire raid with a screw-up. That's why there's 0 tolerance for mistakes and every PF for Coil or Extreme Primal level content above T5 or so is "Make 3 mistakes and you're gone".

I don't think mechanics should be removed, but at the same time it's basically more of a memory game with 8 people than an actual game where you're reacting to things. FF XI was largely a tank and spank game, but the encounters still felt more "skill" dependent than in this game because you could literally carry encounters by yourself even if other members (Who you would just have to pick-up off the street in many cases) were under-performing.

In FF XIV you can do everything right but if someone else whose effort and survival is completely independent from your own dies you're effectively headed towards a wipe in probably over half of end-game encounters. If they continue to die your only solution is to just be stuck there and frustrated until they can learn or to boot them and find someone who can perform. You're telling me that's not a toxic mindset to be promoting?

TLDR: The FFXIers can't handle fast paced combat that requires you to actually pay attention, react quickly, and *gasp* even be there at your computer.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

TLDR: The FFXIers can't handle fast paced combat that requires you to actually pay attention, react quickly, and *gasp* even be there at your computer.

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I like you.

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Originally Posted by Rose_Vilehart

and now i know you are trolling, by this logic kingdom hearts is not an rpg nor is final fantasy XV because they have different elements than mentioned here.......please stop you are embarrassing yourself
oh and "no customization"? srsly?

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they are action games with rpg elements. still with a thicker layer of storytelling than let's say borderlands, but the difference in terms of rpg mechanics isn't that pronounced compared to older games where numbers actually had a meaning attached to them.

it's an industry trend that's marching on for a while now.

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

they are action games with rpg elements. still with a thicker layer of storytelling than let's say borderlands, but the difference in terms of rpg mechanics isn't that pronounced compared to older games where numbers actually had a meaning attached to them.

it's an industry trend that's marching on for a while now.

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What? You're digging a deeper hole bro. An rpg is an rpg action or not. lol too funny. I'm sure you heard of ACTION RPGS.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

The only other solution is vague, EQ-style sinks, which is what the OP wants, what FFXI fans want, and want everyone else on Earth doesn't want.

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There's a lot more solutions than that to add variation to end game encounters. Look to some of the best boss fights in the Souls games or Dragon's Dogma for instance for unforgiving mechanics that require strategy but don't go exactly the same every time. Specific weak points, more destructable areas on the boss, resistances, parts of the arena you can take advantage of tactically, etc.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

And you could do that in all these encounters, who says they have to memorize they can just react but as you can see, they can't even do that. lol And almost all fights you can recover if you are skilled enough and geared enough. Even if people get knocked out of the fight. Why do you think people can sell clears? Because they are skilled and geared.

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The point of the thread isn't what the most skilled players can do but how the current end game content seems to be marking a divide in the community that may make said community shrink.

much text. Cannot read.

If SE reads this please don't listen to this guy.

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From a population perspective, the causal players make up maybe about 60% of the population, the mainstream players perhaps another 30% or so (might not be exact). Now, the true hardcore players probably take up less than 10% of the population.

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Source Please!!!

listen to this guy and this game which is consider a success will go south quick.

This forums makes up a small minority of the entire game population, and even within this minority the amount of complain regarding current end game is small.

to me it sounds like to need to get on a FC/Linkshell/Make friends.
progression will happen with close groups/statics not with DF/PF raids (though PF can get u far if lucky).

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

TLDR: The FFXIers can't handle fast paced combat that requires you to actually pay attention, react quickly, and *gasp* even be there at your computer.

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Yeah, you really should have read it, because that wasn't the point at all.

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Originally Posted by Cap75

The point of the thread isn't what the most skilled players can do but how the current end game content seems to be marking a divide in the community that may make said community shrink.

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There is a community divide in everything in this game. When you can find something that the whole community agrees on that is controversial, hit me up. lol

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Originally Posted by IgnisFatuus

they are action games with rpg elements. still with a thicker layer of storytelling than let's say borderlands, but the difference in terms of rpg mechanics isn't that pronounced compared to older games where numbers actually had a meaning attached to them.

it's an industry trend that's marching on for a while now.

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So the souls series are not rpgs either? huh and here i thought demons souls was the most rpgy action rpg around, seems i was wrong, guess we have to rename the ACTION rpg genre now dont we?
Numbers dont have meaning?............so what you are telling me is without being some god of video games i can beat terra in kh2 on critical as a lvl 1 sora with no problems?...........awesome! hell while im at it i can go fight the final boss of skyrim while lvl 1, it should be easy i mean after all i have great gear and numbers have no meaning right?

What I would want in this game is a long form dungeon. I think all this 45min-60 min runs (if there is anyone out there that even takes that much time) is speed-run-izing this game's community. Everyone is in such a rush to spend their time playing this game. We need more long-form runs. 1hr 30mins for like one or two runs. But that opens a bag for rewards being worth it and such.

wait...I said this was a good read. But did anyone actually read this?
The OP takes there own opinion and makes it fact.
Feels that certain ideas from the dev team are bad, but provides proven bad ideas.
The OP hates the current mechanics of boss battles, but provides zero solutions. My understanding they want more Tank and Spank and no dps races?
wants to run 4 man dungeons with 2-99 players?
and thinks blayflox NM was hard...."Among these dungeons, you have ones like Brayflox, whose difficulty took many first-timers by surprise"..really?
Thats so sawft

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Originally Posted by TopKatt

The OP takes there own opinion and makes it fact.

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He experienced it thus it is a fact based on his opinion. Weather you would like to agree or disagree it does happen and is not some made up myth.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

He experienced it thus it is a fact based on his opinion. Weather you would like to agree or disagree it does happen and is not some made up myth.

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Saying people prefer dungeons pre lvl 50 is a generalization. The op dresses it up like a fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

I can guarantee you this game won't last if they keep this up. I for one have already made a decision that if when expansion comes out and its more of the same shit, I quit. I don't talk for everyone but I am pretty sure a lot of people won't be far behind. The expansion will be what defines this game and its direction.

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I fully expect this to be the case; just insert drk, sam, thf or some other popular job to keep the expansion "fresh" and the hundreds of Sephiroth spinoffs happy.

Anyway, if ppl keep subbing, regardless of their issues with this game, it is a non-factor to SE (Not to mention those whom actual enjoy the mechanics). Me? I am un-subbed until they do something about it. Why should I drop money on a game I feel is flawed?

However, if they announce a job I may like, I will play for about a month or less to test it out; I never sub long-term for XIV; that is just me.

Edit: Damn, the thread was just created this morning and nearing 200 likes, wow.