SE - 2.2 is Going to Cost You Greatly

I freaking love 2.2. So much to do, even grinding, finally open world content to see more of the world. More bosses, more dungeons, more equipment, and especially wicked looking ones for paladin<3 I freaking love it. I love the RNG on fates, I would hate to know to do 1000 per area, because sometimes it is one, sometimes it is 100 sometimes it is 1000, I prefer to not know and just gain gil and up my chocobo rank up as he helps me:p

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Originally Posted by Gramul

This is hardly true, but it's very clear they do pay attention.

On point with the main complaint of atma, I really don't see where the idea that it needs to be done comes from. Far as I understand, there is other gear that's actually even more powerful. Why pursue the upgradable weapon with full force if it doesn't interest you? Yes you will be able to upgrade it more with each patch, but presumably they will also have stronger gear from dungeons, crafting, and primal fights.

I feel like people are putting far too much focus on it.

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Don't bring logic to an internet forum, its frowned upon.

Everyone wants to rush this grind just so they can get their weapon before everyone else, woo hoo so elite! People were pouting hours after the patch went live, and they will find something to cry about in every patch/expansion that comes out if it isn't exactly what they want. If people are unsubbing already, those same people were going to unsub anyway. Some will come back, some will just keep jumping to different MMOs.

Hey, Im Naoki! Happy April 1st!

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

And bear in mind that you have other options for i100 weapons.

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you have one other option that wont take 2 more weeks. the weathered option isnt doable for a good while.

Wanted to take the time and state that I agree with OP about the lack of response to the fate grind however I agree that it is a necessary evil to slow down progression.

Main points though is if you are sick of fate grinding. Stop do something else and come back to it when you feel like it. Ultimately this is a game, there is no rush to get everything right away. Why can't it be 1 attempt at an Atma a day say 1-2 hours and if you get any Atma great! if not tomorrow. The difference in how you approach this is what's causing the dissatisfaction. Although, this is where I agree that SE should find ways to address it with the numerous suggestions on the forums instead of stating nothing.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

Don't bring logic to an internet forum, its frowned upon.

Everyone wants to rush this grind just so they can get their weapon before everyone else, woo hoo so elite! People were pouting hours after the patch went live, and they will find something to cry about in every patch/expansion that comes out if it isn't exactly what they want. If people are unsubbing already, those same people were going to unsub anyway. Some will come back, some will just keep jumping to different MMOs.

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Yoshida number 232 you should pat Yoshida 102 on the back and give him encouragement the only thing that belongs here in this topic is doooooooooooooooooooommmm







Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

On point with the main complaint of atma, I really don't see where the idea that it needs to be done comes from. Far as I understand, there is other gear that's actually even more powerful. Why pursue the upgradable weapon with full force if it doesn't interest you? Yes you will be able to upgrade it more with each patch, but presumably they will also have stronger gear from dungeons, crafting, and primal fights.

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Unless you want to get off the relic weapon boat entirely, you're probably going to want to finish it before the next tier comes out - sure, the current content will become easier then, but you'll be stuck grinding to upgrade your weapon to an outdated level and not getting started on the next one (which hopefully won't have this sort of thing again), so you're going to be behind for a long time. There are certainly reasons to want to keep following the relic quest. It's clear that SE have ongoing plans for it and have talked about making it customisable etc. and other than the Atma grinding it doesn't require RNG luck. Apart from that, other weapons come and go, but your relic staying and growing with you is a nice constant.

Of course, the next tier isn't about to come out next week, so why aren't I focusing on Leviathan EX for shorter-term goals? The reason why I want to get started on mine soon is mythology. It's going to require a lot of mythology to buy the books to upgrade it, and I'm already almost capped. I don't really have anything else I want to spend mythology on by now, so the longer I spend at the mythology cap without an Atma weapon to be spending it on, the more mythology I'm wasting buying random upgrades for classes I don't really play. It doesn't help that people I know already have their Atma weapons and are getting started on all of this, making me feel like I'm getting left behind.

I don't mind that it requires a lot of mythology and other varied work to upgrade. I'm not expecting it to be handed to me within a few days, and that's a long-term goal I can work towards. The Atma grinding, however, is just a long boring slog where the goal is nowhere to be seen until you finally stumble upon it in relief.

Back in MY day, you had to camp 1 hour spawns for a 10% chance of the mob spawning with a 5% chance of that item dropping from that mob. And that was for an illusion mask.

I like the idea of the Atma grind, even though I haven't yet started. The only gripe I have is that it ISN'T competitive with the most powerful weapon in the game. I would prefer something that is like:

- Atma grind is your start, and you get something useless for finishing (i.e. current system), but its something that will identify you as having finished it (perfect!)
- Anima is your 2nd step, and it increases your Relic to something fairly competitive, but there are still better weapons out there(again, good job)
- Zodiac is your final step, and it requires you to complete some sort of end-game content that is NOT coil. Something like Chimera/Hydra, but at least archetype specific (caster dps, physical dps, tank, healer) so there is some variety and sense of ownership of the encounter. It should be able to be beaten by 8 players, and repeatable upon failure, but it should be about as hard as T5 with less of a learning curve and more of a gear check. Like basically if you aren't i89 you are dead. This would upgrade your Relic to at least on par with High Allagan.

There is a lot of hope that my preference is still possible, especially if they announce a way to make your weapon i110/i115 in 2.25 - my only gripe, and I think the underlying reason other people are QQing is that it is not clear that this long Relic quest will end up reaching competitive levels versus... basically versus High Allagan. I think we can assume that it will, as YoshiP seemed to be alluding to that in notes.

I just think that people have no faith/patience in the dev team to make sure that the work they put it is rewarded in the long run, so you get this gut/knee-jerk reactions. Justified or not.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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Thread too long, didn't read.

This note at the end made it pointless for me to continue. Prepare to have your mind blown.

NOTE: Just because you don't like it & your friends don't, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase doesn't. An argument that people don't enjoy it & it will affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument.

Boom.

Guess I'll throw in my two cents as well. 2.2 is great in nearly every way. It's obvious you're digging in for the long haul now and are preparing content that will last us longer. Item distribution feels better and more systems are tied together for lasting appeal. Over all it is quite good. The only gripe I have is the Atma situation. After over 13+ hours of killing fates since 2.2 launched I've obtained a grand total of 0 Atma's. My roommate has killed 2 fates total since 2.2 released and he has 2 Atma's. This utterly disproportionate rate of advancement between two players is completely unacceptable. It's 100% RNG and it makes the entire experience feel like a giant waste of time. Perhaps I'd feel better if I wasn't running level 4-14 fates using only the most basic of my abilities and getting a whopping 35-50 GC seals for it. It makes the whole time farming feel like it's a waste and that I should be off doing something else entirely. That is NOT what you want people thinking when they play this game.

Most this game stuff have been handed to players through dungeons or quests but now with atma oh no!! you actually have put time in and work for it

can't be handed everything forever now

I get to play roughly 2-4 hours a day IF I'm lucky. I agree that FATE grinding is dull but this is how you earn something. Through dedication. Too many people have the mind set of "fast food" gaming. Before 2.2 I saw many posts about how bored people were and how you don't have to "truly" work towards something. SE has given you something to dedicate yourself to IF you choose to do so. There are alternatives to everything in this patch. From the new story content to the new raids/primal. The only way from here is up. In regards to the Atma grind... I hope everyone realizes that SE will most likely increase the drop rates later on. How do you think the new players from PS4 are gonna respond to the zones being ransacked? The OP is clearly blind and just raging because of poor RNG luck which hardly warrants coming on the forums and freaking out about a population drop (which won't be happening). I have been pretty lucky overall with the whole Atma drops (10/12 currently) BUT I am choosing to stop doing it altogether in favor to gear out SCH instead and continue with story progression. Not because of poor drop rates but just because of priorities. I don't want to be spending tombs on Animus if I still need AF2/Soldiery. I'm bringing in a whole horde of PS4 users come April and by the additions in this patch you can clearly tell SE is listening to their consumers and trying their best. For that alone I am grateful. Keep up the good work SE.

here we go again :)

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Originally Posted by Euphe

Through dedication. Before 2.2 I saw many posts about how bored people were and how you don't have to "truly" work towards something..

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Luck isn't dedication.

Gaming isn't work.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Most this game stuff have been handed to players through dungeons or quests but now with atma oh no!! you actually have put time in and work for it

can't be handed everything forever now

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Well, it's not like it requires skill or good playing... so not really work... time is variable.

I'm not sure why someone would want to describe a game as "work" but to each his own =-)

But so long as you have excessive free time, like repetitive mindless tasks, and generally have absolutely nothing better to do with your time-it is pretty much a handout.

You have to provide zero skill.... just stay logged in long enough pushing the button for your cheese.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Luck isn't dedication.

Gaming isn't work.

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This this and more this. It's RNG and it has nothing to do with dedication. My roommate is 2 atma's for 2 fates killed. Not once ounce of dedication. Not one ounce of work. RNG is RNG.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

This this and more this. It's RNG and it has nothing to do with dedication. My roommate is 2 atma's for 2 fates killed. Not once ounce of dedication. Not one ounce of work. RNG is RNG.

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RNG can turn a mediocre player into a hardcore "leet" player- because they have something you don't.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Most this game stuff have been handed to players through dungeons or quests but now with atma oh no!! you actually have put time in and work for it

can't be handed everything forever now

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interesting how you're handed something by doing dungeons but level capped FATEs is some super difficult content.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Statement: snip
NOTE: snip

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Interesting, a blanket statement with a blanket note.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

i hate threads like this where the op thinks he knows so much more than SE. "2.2 is going to cost you greatly." get real. if thousands are going to unsub because the up in arms quest... well I say good riddance. and I fail to see how 2.2 is a "radical shift." this game has been all about rng. yeah it's frustrating when you fate grind and don't get any atma and you get envious of so-and-so who got more than one during the same time frame. and this argument is no different than all the loads of threads complaining about ct drops. how unfair it was that drg/mnk/brd ct drops were everywhere and mages/healers rarely saw what they needed. a "radical shift" would be for SE to abandon or limit RNG.

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Really? You don't see a shift from a design that provides steady and marked progress vs. rng? Even in the CT example you were getting tomes toward greater gear. With the FATES, you receive zero progress unless you get the rng drop.

I see a big shift there.

lol wtf all naoki yoshida

I have an entirely different quarrel with the OP/TC. Pearl S. Buck didn't write "All Men Are Brothers," better known as "Water Margin," she just translated it. So your quote should say --All Men Are Brothers, Shi Nai'an (the actual author). Since when do people quote a book and attribute the quote to the translator? >:/ What's more, the quote is an old proverb and there's like a million of those in that book, so I doubt Shi Nai'an would've taken credit for it, either. Oh, but let's not get into the fact that no one really knows who Shi Nai'an actually was and who really authored Water Margin. So really the quote should just be attributed to "ancient China."

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

RNG can turn a mediocre player into a hardcore "leet" player- because they have something you don't.

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Having a certain item doesn't make anyone "leet". People are putting way too much value into an in game item.

If someone hates doing the quest, stop doing it. Instead people will grind something they hate so they can get their item before anyone else, brag about it, then come on the forums and complain about the quest. It isn't that great of a weapon until after 2.25, why fate grind for days and days just to have it the first week? Now for the next 3 months we will hear "OMG SE I have nothing to do, this is a one day a week game WTF"

Personally I only have 2 atmas and that is fine by me. I'll do a few fates while waiting for queues or just feel like trying to advance it. Any content will become mindnumbing if it is all you are doing.

There was a lot of complaints about no long term goals. Now there is one. It is purely an option and not a necessity.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

running fates gives you chance to get atma AND collect items dropped from the fates.

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what items drop from fates? who wants those? people want CT gear AND people want tomes.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

your "steady and marked progress" is obtaining twelve atmas in Step #1.

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there is no steady or marked progress towards any single Atma, that is one of the two biggest issues i've seen brought up. the second being this involves a lot of level capped content for a very high level piece of equipment.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

doesn't make the RNG allagan quest any less reliant on rng.

and there may not be "marked progress" in getting a SINGLE atma, but there is "marked progress" in getting ALL twelve atmas. there's no marked progress in obtaining a SINGLE coil piece, but there is marked progress in obtaining all coil pieces.

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1. There is no quest to get all the Coil drops, and in fact most people only want the pieces that are useful to them and don't care about the others. You don't get anything extra, not even a gold star, for getting all the Coil pieces. You may have it as a personal goal, but that doesn't have anything to do with game mechanics.

2. Getting Coil pieces, at least for new turns that are still locked, is a one-and-done deal. What I mean is, you have one chance, and if you don't get your drop, you can't try again for another week, so it doesn't feel grindy. You say "oh well" and wait until next week, because you have no choice.

3. Even for the turns that are now unlocked, if you don't get the drop you want, you just re-queue. There's no running halfway across the zone, hoping you get there before the FATE finishes, hoping you can tag enough mobs or do enough damage to get a gold (I'm working on SCH Atma, about 70% of the time I get to a FATE and the only spells I have are Bio and Ruin, sometimes not even Cleric Stance). You have full access to all your skills and there's no running to get somewhere and hit the Level Sync button before you can even start the grinding. This is the reason I want marked progress on a single Atma, some way to know I will get one, because right now I've done 22+ hours of FATE grinding (yes, with Zenith equipped and free inventory space) and don't have a single one.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

people may want gear AND tomes. but once tomes are capped it's only about the gear.

and just because YOU don't find any value in any crafting items that may drop doing fates doesn't mean that NO ONE values it.

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i've done both, gotten my gear for the week and went to CT only for the tomes, capped my tomes and went to CT just to get the gear. so both independently are motivations for why people attend the event.

the same cannot be said for Atma vs any FATE that's not Odin/Behemoth or some specific quest FATE (Daily, Hilde, CT unlock, etc).

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

and there may not be "marked progress" in getting a SINGLE atma, but there is "marked progress" in getting ALL twelve atmas.

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that is not fine when it can take more than 3 hours to get one. anything that people can't reasonably expect to get in one sitting should have marked progress.

Coil progress is marked by whether you cleared that Turn for the week or not. Range sucks for the drops there too but there is definitely marked progress in Coil.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

say what? define "marked progress." when you collect an atma... this is not "marked progress" because...? at the end of the day, whatever atmas I've collected get marked off on the checklist.

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every daily has marked progress (kill 3 Archers, 2 Giant Banestools, complete 1 FATE, etc, etc). original relic quest has marked progress for every step, each step can be done in one sitting provided you complete the task.

there should not exist in this game any single step/sub-step that can not be completed in one sitting provided you win.

sub-step meaning like gather 99 Iron Ores, it's marked when i go from 10 Ores to 11 Ores, i can see incremental progress for those that might take more than one sitting. Atmas have no such thing.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

just because I can go three hours without checking anything off of my checklist doesn't mean it's not a checklist.

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that makes it a bad list.

Step in right direction but it seems Fates still need a greater purpose.
Use the Atmas earned in the fates to be used to Spawn HNMs or something that drop gear within the zone.
Then make sure NMs are not near any leveling/main fate locations.
Also balance out the Gear/rewards for each of the 12 HNMs.
Might also want to add a Lesser Reward for players to obtain from all Fates they clear. Something like easier to obtain Atma. Not seals because people will just focus on higher level fates to obtain greater amount of them.

This will make Fate Grinding little bit more rewarding even for players still leveling & even after they obtain there Atma Relic still do Fates from time to time. Also may want to add HNM Fate that spawns in each zone after period of time. Something like spawns every 2~5 hours depending on Fate wins. Increase Atma obtain rate on these HNMs also by 10%. Give these HNM fates 2-3 spawn locations and takes 20mins to beat them also.

On another note FFXIV seems to want to create many items to serve a different purpose instead of having that single item serve many purposes. I think there needs to be more of a balance so items actually get sold faster. Like instead of 40 glamour meld items for each grade & every craft just have 5. Just like with dark matter. Keep it simple or we will be going back to 1.0 where there was like 2000 types of itmes, chains, rope, steel bar, steel ingot, steel blade, etc..

So many apologists, if only I was producer and/or director I'd make a long letter explaining how these people end up hurting my game.

i don't even do the atma farming and i have plenty to do. its probably because i have been doing a lot of crafting and gathering, but capping soldiery took a couple hours for a couple days. new raids and progression takes a chunk of time. im on a lot too, and i still have a ton of stuff to do. the new fights are great, they are a lot more fun, not just frustrating anymore. 2.2 was a great step in the right direction. the games improved a lot since launch imo. I'm not cool with the retainer thing, but i really don't care, its not going to help anyone get the best gear or anything like that. its not an unfair advantage. server latency sucks, and just a half hour ago the game was unplayable, but i figure theres a lot of traffic, and it pretty much comes down to the fact that SE and its investors need to fully dig themselves out of the economic hole they were in before they can commit to spending a large amount of money on something like servers. it will come, just be patient. if you don't like the new content then, theres really not much else you can do than stop playing. i, for one, really enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

dumbest thing I've read on here all day. and that says a lot.

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Can the real Naoki Yoshida please stand up.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

dumbest thing I've read on here all day. and that says a lot.

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Don't call me dumb, you're calling yourself dumb too, we are one.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

-snip-

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I agree that there should be a lot more incentive to do FATEs. You have some half-decent ideas here. While I'm glad they added retainer ventures and a grind for our relics there could obviously be improvements. FATEs themselves aren't bad in concept and I wouldn't mind them if they weren't somewhat forced on us on certain things. I'd definitely like them a lot more if there was more reasons to do them aside from company seals. No system is perfect and SE will never please everyone. That said though, this is their first actual patch that's taking a step forward. 2.1 was a catch-up patch of sorts so they are still trying to get their bearings in my opinion. It's a step in the right direction but it could certainly be improved upon.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

you need 12 atmas. collect an atma and it goes from needing 12 to needing 11. ba-boom! progress marked! your logic is so bad I don't know how to respond.

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I am at 22ish hours of FATE farming now without a single drop. The way the quest works now, 100% of that time I have spend has been completely wasted because it didn't progress the quest. Only the FATEs where an Atma drops cause marked progress, and this is the problem. Only 1% of the most annoying activity in the game actually progresses the quest, and the other 99% counts for absolutely nothing.

Of course, you know that is exactly what is being talked about and are just interested in trolling.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

I didn't call you dumb. I just think your use of stereotyping and relegating people to being "apologist" is absurd. just because I disagree with OP that SE will pay greatly for this and just because I don't see the big deal that people are complaining of doesn't mean i'm an apologist and it certainly doesn't mean i'm hurting the game and it certainly doesn't require a letter from a producer to tell me that my opinions should be silenced.

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It's ok me, I'm sorry I hurt my own feelings by calling myself an apologist, maybe dedicated Final Fantasy lover would have been a better option. I'll consider not hurting myself and my feelings next time.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

of course, naturally the only voices that should be heard are the complaining voices and anyone who is fine with the quest should shut up.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

let me be clear. I don't think the atma quest is perfect. I don't find it incredibly exciting either.

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but you're not fine with the quest either.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

a checklist that may require taking more than a few hours isn't a bad checklist. it just means it may be a time intensive checklist.

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no, it doesn't because range is not time intensive. they easily could've made it complete 12/25/50/75/100 FATEs in each zone for each Atma and have a counter for each of them just like everything else. that would be incremental marked progress for each successful action (completing a FATE).

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

i'm not trolling. people want "marked progress." the quest has "marked progress." just because it takes a long time mark off progress doesn't mean it's not "marked progress." just because you have some cry/teary story about how you haven't gotten a single drop in 22 hours doesn't mean it's not marked progress. it just means the RNG gods hate you. if the real problem is that people hate that they can go so long without a drop, then that's a problem. but this argument that there is no "marked progress" is just silly.

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You're still not listening. There is NO marked progress to get an Atma. There is marked progress for getting all 12, but not for getting ONE. That is what we're talking about. I would rather have it be a time sink for everyone, like "Do every FATE in these 12 zones three times each" rather than a time sink only for the unlucky. That way I can know in advance how many weeks/months it is going to take me, rather than "grind and pray".

Hey me the word you're looking for is tracked progress, I forgot to add a tracker for the Atmas in the journal, but it's ok we'll surely fix it by the time we roll out 2.25 along with the drop rates. I messed up hard but nobody's perfect right? Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

*snip*

NOTE: just because you & your friends DON'T like it, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase doesn't... .

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This goes in both directions

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

I am listening. if you would read all of my posts you would see that I UNDERSTAND what you're saying. your real problem is that you have no idea when the quest is going to end and you just want to know where the finish line is.

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yes so why do you keep arguing?