Another "they quit" thread

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Marketing or not, if you cannot produce concrete evidence to dispute a claim, you need to hush up. SE has gone as far as to make an official statement that could be challenged legally. Are you willing to do the work to do the same, or are you just going to be a side-seat speculator who thinks that empty cynicism actually as worth in the world?

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lol really? Sorry, but this just isn't worth expanding on. Keep assuming the scenario that tickles your fancy. It seems to be working just fine for you.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-FFXIV-and-DQX

Your turn. Where's your evidence?

Marketing or not, if you cannot produce concrete evidence to dispute a claim, you need to hush up. SE has gone as far as to make an official statement that could be challenged legally. Are you willing to do the work to do the same, or are you just going to be a side-seat speculator who thinks that empty cynicism actually as worth in the world?

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You need to read it again. It said accounts, as in FFXIV service accounts. I myself have 3, 2 on one account and one on another. 2 was made for beta, none of them are active. They didn't answer on the question of active subscriptions.

Don't forget at least 100k accounts belong to gil farmers, or at least it seems that way.

Also people paying for that sub stuff :p, I know lots of people that paid for 6 months for the eye mount ect. That stopped playing 2 months in... With a sub game in wich you can pay for in advance numbers won't really be accurate till it's to late if you only count by subs. Numbers on there end will just tAke a dump and they will be like.... Oh em geeeee who knew!?!?

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

People are quitting because this isn't an MMO; it's an eight-player co-op game.

You do the same content weekly with the same eight people; you aren't even allowed to help others once you've done the end-game content for the week. If you don't manage to have exactly 7 friends, you suffer the party finder. If you have over 7 friends, the rest get screwed.

The lockout is largely to blame.

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Agreed ! Thats my feeling as well!!

As a guild leader I agree with most the issues coming up.

The content as it is designed is just a nightmare for anyone trying to run a guild.

Members log on less and less the futher it gets into a patch, Fri/Sat/Sun are the lowest attendance days of a week. AND THIS IS NOT OK... it is a failure to allow this to happen. IT was an issue in WoW as well... for many it is was one of the big issues. This is a MMO you should NEVER run out of content to do. IF you do it is 100% the devs fault for not doing what we paid them to do. This is a sub game it is fair to demand a never ending game. Not one that ends after 4hrs every monday.

Every week I am forced to figure out how to make groups run with varied play schedules. What to do with left overs (people who are forced to pug). And how to plan things that are not coil due to the varied play schedule. And how to get people in the guild to play together as much as possible, which coil 100% prevents.

So more or less I am forced to decide what members of my guild I screw over each week and how I have to organize 3-5 groups of exactly 8 people into the exact time frame... it is hellish and about as far away from fun as you can possibly get.... Thanks for that SE, I get more gray hair over running my guild in this game then I do during busy season working as an accountant.



The content in this game currently fails as a mmo. I agree this is more of a co-op rpg then it is a mmo. Especially at endgame.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

IF you do it is 100% the devs fault for not doing what we paid them to do.

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You don't pay them to make content. You pay them to play THEIR game. They can, at any given time, decide if they want to add new content or just shut down the game and guess what, you have 0 say in the decisions. The only thing you can do is influence what they do. Obviously they don't want their game to crash and burn without at least making some profit so what do you do? You listen to the customers who offer suggestions/feedback on what should be implemented and then they decide if it's worth their time to implement it.

If I was a gambling man and had a way of verifying it, I would wager the kids and those that don't have jobs are the ones who think the level of service is fine, and the working adults who are worth their space on this earth are the ones who do not think this game is anywhere near where it should be/should have been.

Yes, blanket, generalist broad statement. But I stand by it. The problem with forums is children can type.

I'd like to think that despite the number of "I quit" threads, the game may still be thriving. People tend to notice when friends and associates of FC and LS leave, you don't pay attention to the number of new players coming in. People are going by the number of their circle leaving. It sad to see buddies leave, but in the long run, no one wants to pay to play something they aren't having fun with anymore. Thems the brakes.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

I'd like to think that despite the number of "I quit" threads, the game may still be thriving. People tend to notice when friends and associates of FC and LS leave, you don't pay attention to the number of new players coming in. People are going by the number of their circle leaving. It sad to see buddies leave, but in the long run, no one wants to pay to play something they aren't having fun with anymore. Thems the brakes.

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Yup, but it goes to show the retention rate of the game. And it seems really low if a lot of people notices their FC/LS getting empty.

Also noticed that many more people I know are steering toward unsubbing. It's even worse than the the last few weeks dragging onto 2.1. Personally it's starting to be simply lackluster to play this game aside from playing around in my new fc house.

I for sure won't be subscribing in big block anymore to show SE that I have lost faith in the way the game is heading. I will stick around for 2.2, might stay or not depend on how many friends I know will be around. I run an FC so I will also stay as long as I can to support everyone, but that will also end once I stop having fun. In most cases, I will probably turn into one of those players that leave and come back only for new patches. That's just how I think this game is supposed to be designed to play. Your move Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

I'd like to think that despite the number of "I quit" threads, the game may still be thriving. People tend to notice when friends and associates of FC and LS leave, you don't pay attention to the number of new players coming in. People are going by the number of their circle leaving. It sad to see buddies leave, but in the long run, no one wants to pay to play something they aren't having fun with anymore. Thems the brakes.

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One current player quitting is much more detrimental to the game as a whole than one new player joining. Most of the ones who've been here for a couple months into their sub have already solidify their place in FC and LS. So once they announce that they will quit, it will more than likely send the same signal to others in the same boat to jump ship.

Also beating the dead horse, there is obviously an odd flux in the number of active subscriber that is deemed unsafe for public disclosure. It is sad that Yoshi and SE are not confident enough in their number regardless if they plan to hold out until PS4 and Chinese release to inflate the population. Whatever happened to being a humble niche MMORPG that try to be content with their target goal of 400k~ subscribers?

The numbers of NEW players are also increasing. Some go some come. Also When PS4 get release next month there will be another wave of many new players.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

One current player quitting is much more detrimental to the game as a whole than one new player joining. Most of the ones who've been here for a couple months into their sub have already solidify their place in FC and LS. So once they announce that they will quit, it will more than likely send the same signal to others in the same boat to jump ship.

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I think alot of folks got burned out, especially from the 1.0 crowd. Alot of them came over with all the bells and whistles already. It's no surprise that some of them are leaving for whatever reason. Most likely because things aren't how they expected the game to be or they ran out of things they want to do, or that the game is lacking in one form or another which is usually what the case is.

That coupled with the fact that alot of new games lose players in the very beginning still doesn't spell death for the game. One new player coming along might just be the next person to join yours or my free company or LS. Don't count out the new people just because they are new. Both old players and new players have the option to quit at any time.

The problem is, people see friends leaving and decide it's not worth sticking around to make new friends out of the people who are coming up. Everyone leaves at some point. New and old.

One new player, could easily become a vetern down the line. I think both the new and old are just as important. They are both paying cash.

Sure some veterns might be more tempted to stay, but as I mentioned, some of these veterens have already been there and done that and feel its time to move on.

Regardless of having no proof that the numbers are falling, I'd say there are about 30-40 people in my FC that have either quit for good or have quit temporarily at this point within the last 2 months alone. I find it very disheartening that so many people from my FC have quit and I'm somewhat worried that if 2.2 does not deliver as much as I'm hoping it does that things will only get worse.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

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Technically speaking, you are out of content as soon as you complete everything there is to do one time. Repeating the same fight over and over is not more content than doing it once. No game ever has enough for you to not run out of content. No game ever will.

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Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

Technically speaking, you are out of content as soon as you complete everything there is to do one time. Repeating the same fight over and over is not more content than doing it once. No game ever has enough for you to not run out of content. No game ever will.

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It is not about doing and saying you have won. That is the offline game mentality.


Building a guild, bringing up the team, working hard to achieve things as a group that cannot be done alone. That is what progression in a mmo is. World first and the rest mean nothing and it is a sign of how bad the genre is getting that WF is becoming the primary things that defines whether you are the best. It is sorta a joke how 8ppl can define a guild of 60+'s standing in the world.

I played XI with my guild for nearly 6 and a half years before SE killed of XI and we moved here. During that time I operated 24/7. with garenteed 5hrs of events per night not counting hnm camps (which averaged 9hrs a day). We averaged about 10nights off a year. I had 43 members that averaged between 30-40hrs of playtime a week, I had about a dozen that averaged in excess of 50. Those players are my biggest casualty in XIVARR to date. The most dedicated players I have had to quit out of sheer bordom. And 3 of those who quit.. leveled 2 alts to cap on multiple classes so the whole 1.0 players comming over is a load of bull. It takes 3days to get from newplayer to 50 on 1 class. And another 2days with the help of a guild to be ready for coil.

SO you are wrong on the NO game has done it. The one we came from we got over 29,000hrs of content we could do as a guild to improve ourselves, and pre abysea we were not even close to being finished with guild progression With no new content I could of got another 5,000-10,000 hrs out of it. I could incorporate everyone in everything no matter if I had 8ppl online or 40, so no one was left out everyone was included. Everyone felt like they were a member of Paradox not just a member of team B that is under the guild name.

Running out of content is not beating something, It is finishing it as a guild that defines completeness. Once content is negated finished or not it becomes irrelevant and can no longer be included as valid content to strive for as a guild.

In all my years in XI I had maby 2 members complain of bordom or having nothing to do. Atm over half my guild is on a near nightly basis. Based on my forum database in 6yrs I went through 131 members in XI. In XIV 1.0 I went through 206... in ARR I am at 94 in less then a year (all but 3 quit the game not the guild). does that tell you the turn over. And it is not my guild. Talk to any large scale endgame guild they almost all have high turnover.



People are right the game is getting alot of new players. But keeping old players is > then getting new ones. New players will dry up and in a big way. So without retention the game is 100% going to fail. If we were still keeping 30% of the new subs we would be neating the 1million sub mark.. and the devs would be saying it all over they are not. People need to wake up, XIV is not healthy atm. It is not dying yet, but it has cancer. And if something is not done it will die an early death.

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Originally Posted by Chippy2

Totally agree with the OP 110% EG is something that should be enjoyed by all the members of your FC not just the select few!. The only way they can combat this is by open world content. Cramming everything that's good About endgame into an instanced 8 man set-up is just bollocks!. Yoshi P really needs to listen to the "Majority" of the fan base here and address the EG. I understand he been limiting what we can loot because he didn't want us getting too far ahead of the new player base that will be starting on the PS4!. But for the life of me once it's released please stop these damn loot lockouts..(AND PLEASE, STOP!MAKING ALL EG SO LINEAR!.)

All Yoshi had to do was make another FFXI but with less level grind. For me that was the only "Chore & grindy" part about XI. Everything else worked just fine, we had to WORK for our drops & when we got them we we're damn PROUD to wear them. The drops also had lastability.[...]

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Thank you !!!

Pretty sure that keeping any player, retention wise, is better than keeping just old players. I'm also sure that the folks who claim keeping the old over pulling in the new were also new at some point as well. How do you think a player becomes a vetern? They BEGIN a game as a new player and continue with it building their character up. However this is just my opinion. 15 bucks is 15 bucks no matter how you slice it.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

They BEGIN a game as a new player and continue with it building their character up. However this is just my opinion. 15 bucks is 15 bucks no matter how you slice it.

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If it becomes a revolving door, sooner or later the subs is just going to down and down without any new players joining when the game gets older. Like all the p2p mmos that went F2p.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

Pretty sure that keeping any player, retention wise, is better than keeping just old players.

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It's a common misconception that if your product has a high buy in but low retention that everything is ok because people are still buying it. But what happens when you exhast your resource of new customers?

There are only so many people interested in MMO's in the first place (Don't quote wow numbers it's really an anomally statistically in the MMO genre, as much as developers all want to be it they never will, I doubt even Blizzard will be able to replicate WoW's numbers with Titan)

The "Casual" crowd while large doesn't really have a "Long term" buy in rate, they hit the game when it's new if they like it they play it until they get bored of it and leave. You don't see many casual players picking the game up years after release they are more often than not interested in newer products that have been advertising for their attention rather than a MMO that is a few years old and starting to show it's age.

The hardcore crowd while having a overall lower adoption rate, tend to stick with a game for a long period of time (Often the games entire lifespan) can generate more revenue for the company than 10x the same number of customers who all quit 3 months in.

Having both is the holy (WoW) Grail...but it's never been replicated in the MMO genre after WoW. Most games try to target the casual players, can't retain them and have to resort to alternative methods to bring in money to support the game, as the hardcore player base isn't there to keep them afloat during times of turmoil or during large exoduses of casual gamers.

Hardcore MMO's generally don't see the same numbers but remain profitable over time, hell FFXI was (And still is) Square Enix's most profitable venture in the gaming market. Cry about it's mechanics all you want and paltry subscription numbers, it's heralded as being one of the biggest money makers for Square Enix to this date. FFXIV has alot of time to try and catch up to that number and only time will tell if they happen to make it there, while they try and focus on hardcore and casual players I don't think they will.

I'm sorry, I haven't read all 15 pages. Only around 4-5. Here are my 5 cents:
* Why after saving cities, nations or doing some epic stuff I have to fill buckets of water in main quest? I just killed a dragon-ish thing and now I have to participate in a festival which is not even presented as a festival.
* Same dungeons/fates/levewhateverquests over and over again.
* Apparently there are some locks in end-game => I beat same dungeon 2-3 times and... what? Wait for a week to do the same thing again?
* Silent opening mouths are funny at first, but annoying soon after.
* As DPS I have to wait for maybe an hour to join a party for dungeon which doesn't garantee it'll be victorious => waiting yet another hour.

If developers read this - they better listen. So far I'm not planning on continuing my subscription even though after that initial "wow" moment I stupidly bought 2 months of it and now regret it.

Oh right. Almost forgot
* Collecting resources from mining and botanist is veeeeeeeeery slow
* Auction house is pretty much meh
* Side quests are kinda all identical.
* Combat is very repeatetive. It's pretty much same combination over and over. Barely any surprises.

We don't have further motivation. Add something with non 100% drop late, even low drop chance to some content.

Also why not improve leves ? they re pointless now. Add something that if u clear few u ll get some citizen recommendation or something else, which u can spend to buy boss leve (4-8 group) with decent drop (dont have to be 100%).

Old dungeons 50+ could drop craft parts (no 100% rate from some chests) and if u collect parts from various dungeons u might be able to craft high lvl body part.

Oh just foolish ideas. Besides everything else.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's a common misconception that if your product has a high buy in but low retention that everything is ok because people are still buying it. But what happens when you exhast your resource of new customers?

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I understand your point, however I think I keep getting misunderstood here. I'm not talking about the purchase of the game here. I'm not talking about the purchase of the game and a couple months of sub. I'm talking about new players who get hooked and remain. How did you get started on this series? As a vetern? The veterns who remained in 1.0 still didn't keep the game from dying out. The game was put out in a bad state. This version imo may be better (I can't speak on the differences, since I didn't play 1.0) but I'm willing to bet if the same group of 1.0 players stuck with this game, and no new potential veterns (new players) come in, it'd be in a plot buried next to 1.0.

I don't really see a point in a casual vs hardcore in this conversation because both groups have many different meanings, especially since if we were to consider veterns the hardcore, maybe 1.0 wouldnt have fizzled out and their payments could have funded better development but that didn't happen.

Also, as many games as there are out there, it's hard for any game to not lose people. If this were the only game out then it would be different but there will always be another game, the next hot entertainment.

I'm having a hard time understanding how people forget that they were new at some point.. you aren't born a vetern on any game. (unless of course you're 1.0 coming to 2.0 but thats neither here nor there, since this is supposedly "a new game")

I get the feeling you've played this game or some version of it for awhile. I could be wrong, anyway if I am, lets pretend. You started off as a new player when Final Fantasy came out, here you are now.


I think the stigma on new players is because new players come in all shapes and sizes for all different reasons. Some come to check it out, some come because they were gifted the game, some actually buy the game and play it for years and years, turning into a vetern. I'm actually talking about those people, I'm talking about you too, if you're a vetern because no matter how you try to dress it up, at some point you too were NEW.

Reponses to my posts sound like people have the idea that all new players are here to just tinker and move on. If thats the case then the game is already screwed and we need to start making funeral arrangements if we're to survive by just the veterns.

People are going to leave, veterns are going to leave, new players are going to leave. It just happens. Life happens, new games come out, subscriptions get turned off, people quit games all together, people make families and can't spend as much time in game anymore, content runs out,. it just happens.

Many people have said it, I'll also say it, there will NEVER be enough content in a game to keep EVERYONE happy and prevent people from unsubbing. Hell, even the producer hasn't finished all there is in the game yet and I'm sure he's got the power to god mode it. It's sad that people are leaving but thats the way the cookie crumbles. Happens in all games.

At any rate, we will get to see how things unfold as they are, with March 27th around the corner. Thanks for responses.

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Originally Posted by Royze

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People quit MMO's all the time. I'm not sure exactly what you'd hope to accomplish with this post outside of venting because odds are things won't be any different down the line as they are now.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

People are going to leave, veterns are going to leave, new players are going to leave. It just happens. Life happens, new games come out, subscriptions get turned off, people quit games all together, people make families and can't spend as much time in game anymore, content runs out,. it just happens.

Happens in all games.

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It's the circleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee of lifeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yes it happens in all games but some a lot sooner than others. If your old players are leaving at an alarming rate, then most likely new players aren't going to get hook for long. I.E FFXI vs some random F2P mmo.

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Originally Posted by Doo

It's the circleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee of lifeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yes it happens in all games but some a lot sooner than others. If your old players are leaving at an alarming rate, then most likely new players aren't going to get hook for long. I.E FFXI vs some random F2P mmo.

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With the amount of games out these days and new ones coming out all the time, there is no way any game will keep alot of people long time, those days are over.

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Originally Posted by Doo

It's the circleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee of lifeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yes it happens in all games but some a lot sooner than others. If your old players are leaving at an alarming rate, then most likely new players aren't going to get hook for long. I.E FFXI vs some random F2P mmo.

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I think the issue with that is, this game is unlike the others due to it being re-released and then getting to transfer basically completed characters over. That was a nice ode to the veterns, and it might have seemed like a good idea but it probably killed it for them at the same time due to the issue of not having enough content for those who have already had a 50 at launch. It's why alot of people made new characters despite having a character brought over. I wonder if it would have been different if they hadn't brought finished characters over. Probably not, cause there will always be people who zip to the end asap.

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Originally Posted by XiaoliVorgan

Probably not, cause there will always be people who zip to the end asap.

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No need to zip to the end because 1-50 are tutorials.

Can't agree more! it happens with many FCs/LSs! and as you mentioned the community in FFXI was something you wish it comes back! i'm playing with a group of people that were togather during FFXI and some of them I know since 2004~2005 even though we live apart far from each other.

I hope it gets sorted somehow, I have a strong faith on Yoshi-sama!

Here is still no comment of the devs If they will fix this? Or even planned to do something?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

If you have 1 successful group and have it on farm status you can cycle in the people who are having problems with it each week and take different people in your FC until you cleared it with everyone. The you go problem solved.

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I suggested that to the first static in my FC, and got a very hostile response. Very hostile. Considering I am the FC leader, that was not an entirely positive thing. So tread carefully.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

As a guild leader I agree with most the issues coming up.

The content as it is designed is just a nightmare for anyone trying to run a guild.

Members log on less and less the futher it gets into a patch, Fri/Sat/Sun are the lowest attendance days of a week. AND THIS IS NOT OK... it is a failure to allow this to happen..

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Completely agree - as a guild leader of 3 years now. The current set up is highly antisocial unless you are part of a static. Thing is, once a static forms, it runs coil and all end-game together, freezing others out. It locks groups of players away from the rest of the FC. It's a horrible, horrible mechanism. Everything else is PUGable, or solo. There is very little in this game to bring people together for the sake of being together.

You asking SE to fix the behavior of your guildmates? Oh, my...
As a FC leader, if someone don't behave as the FC guidelines are, it will be kicked, even if he is the best player of the planet. If you permit some behavior, it means you agree with it.

i dont get it... its the same in every mmo, even in wow there is a 10man raid and if you have farm on it then rotate. whats the problem? right now you are blaming the game for having such unfriendly members. meh

Sadly my FC got a static but so far everytime i ask if anyone of them want to come to do First Coil Turn 1 or Titan EX with me no responses but if it is a dungeon or HMs trials, the whole FC came alive. The problem here in my opinion is that the endgame raids and trials are just too damn hard on the new players which make it hard to PUG or rotate. The FC static who had Garuda EX on farm status before 2.2 decided to help out 4 new FC members including me to clear it for the first time and we barely cleared it thanks for the echo buff.

That or they just avoid me because i am a horrible tank *sob*

Reasons as to why I have quit the game. This is just my opinion, I know most would disagree.
1. The storyline and characters after Gaius was defeated has been very weak. The ending we just had would have been great if I'd have cared for any of the characters but didn't.
2. SE lack of action against cheats, and no action to stop all the spam we get from gil sellers. It feels as though they do nothing with this, there are so many ways to stop the gil sellers, or just slow them down but we get them 100s of times a day now. SE also does nothing about the use of GW, extremely annoying when it comes to hunts. - That being said, if they could take a few things from GW and let players officially use them that would be great.
3. We don't get rewards for getting stuff done. I don't want to do primals 100's of times to get all the mounts, we beat it once we should have it. Instead they make you do the same battles over and over, and face it, once you've beaten them they're no longer fun.

4. The battles don't feel like battles. It feels more like a puzzle game, having to stand in certain places in every single one. I feel like I have to go into bot mode. There's no freedom, and none of it is reactive because the big battles all have a set routine making it too easy.
5.Too much is down to luck. I spent hours and hour saving my gil, then to buy my gathering gear, then to spend countless hours levelling my classes. My gathering and perception is impossible to be any higher and more than enough to catch certain fish, I then spend ages waiting on the correct weather, then more time fishing only to catch nothing. If that isn't a waste of my life I don't know what is.
6. The Golden Saucer is the biggest disappointment of all. I thought this could have been made so much better, there is nothing fun to it what so ever. I think it's pathetic you can't use cards you obtain,you have to level up card playing, how much of a waste is that! As for chocobo racing don't get me started.

7. Life is spent in queues or waiting in Party Finder. Sure enough I could have found statics but I can't predict other peoples lives. But I've lost count of the hours I've spent waiting to do stuff on that game.As someone who enjoyed pvp most of all it was agony.
8. One guy told me he done the same dungeon over 70 times for part of his relic quest. This is cruel by SE. We're forced to do the same things over and over and over. That's over a day of his life gone. The part that had me feeling sorry for him was he was proud of how much he'd got done on the game, the gil he'd made, the fact he had everything upto level 50. He was actually bragging (in a nice and proud way) but that was probably the moment when I realised I needed to get the hell away from FFXIV.