Guildleves Reform info up

The problem is that I don't disagree. This does look like it is going to be an unfortunate mess.

It's not a mess. The necessary groundwork is being laid to bring balance.

Well said, Lucian.

There's a reason that players have all congregated in one city. It's because it makes the game more enjoyable for the players. It's a way that players have minimized many of the game's problems. If we didn't like being in one place, we wouldn't have all moved to the same place.

1) No Means of Travel. As Lucian said, the regeneration rate for anima is already painfully slow, compared to the amount of anima players use daily. Spreading people out throughout the world is going to make this problem worse. Players are going to be forced to spend more of their game time running -- which everyone hates -- rather than fighting, gathering, or crafting -- which are the reasons we play the game.

2) Market Wards. Buyers and sellers like having everyone in Uldah because it's one market where everyone can go. You don't need to travel to 3 different cities just to see if someone is selling one item. Having everyone in Uldah gives us the benefit of a central, worldwide market ward, even though one is not in the game currently.

So forcing everyone to divide into 3 different cities is going to hurt the economy and make it more difficult to buy and sell goods.

3) Party Diversity. Increasing class uniqueness is one of the stated goals of the new battle system. Ideally, every party would be made up of a variety of classes.

But under the new leve system, different classes are going to want to do different leves. Conj/Lnc/Arc in Gridania; Thm/Pug/Glad in Uldah; Mar in LL.

It's going to be difficult to find tanks to do leves in Grid. It's going to be difficult to find melee DPS in Uldah. And it's going to be difficult to find anyone except Mars in LL.

So parties are going to be made up of the same limited classes. That's going to discourage party diversity.

4) Social Aspects. Currently, one of the biggest benefits to having everyone in one city is that there are usually people on to socialize and interact with. The drop in the number of active players is going to be much more noticeable if we're forced to spread out through 3 different regions.

5) No Mailboxes. There's currently no way to give someone else items unless you're standing right next to that person. Forcing us to spread throughout the world is going to make it much more difficult to give items to other players.

Someone from my LS is trying to level Leatherworking, and I've got dodo skins to spare? Sorry, man. You're in Gridania, and I'm working on Blacksmith in LL. I want to help, but not so much that I'm willing to run for a hour just to trade you some skins.

I don't mean this to be a doom and gloom post. I understand that it's going to take time to implement everything that's going to make this game whole. I'm just not sure that dividing players and spreading them out throughout the world is going to be good for anything right now (except maybe server load).

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

3) Party Diversity. Increasing class uniqueness is one of the stated goals of the new battle system. Ideally, every party would be made up of a variety of classes.

But under the new leve system, different classes are going to want to do different leves. Conj/Lnc/Arc in Gridania; Thm/Pug/Glad in Uldah; Mar in LL.

It's going to be difficult to find tanks to do leves in Grid. It's going to be difficult to find melee DPS in Uldah. And it's going to be difficult to find anyone except Mars in LL.

So parties are going to be made up of the same limited classes. That's going to discourage party diversity.

I don't mean this to be a doom and gloom post. I understand that it's going to take time to implement everything that's going to make this game whole. I'm just not sure that dividing players and spreading them out throughout the world is going to be good for anything right now (except maybe server load).

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Hi Vydarr,

You bring up some great points. :) I agree with most of them, but a few things to consider:

Re: Party Diversity - At first I was thinking of this as well, but remember one key thing Yoshida-san said - that Guildleves are going to be Solo-focused - there isn't going to be a need for Guildleve Parties the way we're used to, now.

So it's not going to be as much of an issue for Party Diversity for Guildleves, because they're going to be refocused to be more Solo activities.

In addition, people will get to a point where they don't need / want Guild Marks any more for their class. At that point, if they want to still do Leves with friends, they can go wherever suits them (but again it's more of a Solo activity now).

So for SP Parties (out in the open world), we can still have parties as they are and diversified just fine.


Re: the other changes and spreading the players out, I agree that right now, it's tough (with low populations), but at the same time, *something* needs to change. The game is stagnating, there are 2 entire Nations (LL, Gridania) that are ghost towns and abandoned, wasting away.

It'll be good to get some traffic and incentivize people to move about.

The status quo of everyone on the server sitting, crowded in Ul'dah all day and going to Broken Water only is making for a stagnant, boring and dying gameplay experience (even with its many conveniences).

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I parsed some questions from throughout the thread and brought them up to the team. Without further ado...

We'll be making it so utilizing guardian's aspect will grant you a bonus at the time of defeating an enemy and also upon completion.

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I know this is most likely off topic be speaking of what has been quoted I have a question about guardian aspect and guardian's in general. Guardian's had the opportunity to create a unique development in making a customized character yet it became nothing more then just some random deity that you wanted to fall under. During beta I had imagined that they were hiding the true aspect of guardians until release, but upon release guardians were nothing more then flavor text.

Now I hope you haven't forgotten about the whole guardian concept and actually create a use to make them useful, it was mentioned that you would be able to switch your guardian if you wished if I'm correct, and if that's the case the whole concept of guardians just open a wide array of customization and content for players to enjoy.

Dark Ages was a game that used deities though you could only fall under one, but upon praising and practicing the morals of the deity you obtained a higher rank and abilites from them.

Basically what I'm getting at is, there's a huge opportunity to create content around guardians in which you can obtain unique guardian aspects, abilities and traits when you are assigned to that deity. You are free to switch between your faith but you can only use the abilities when you are on the proper guardian. It's a simple enough idea and opens up the door to more customization.

On the case of guardian aspect, what was the whole point of calling it guardian aspect, it might as well have been called Skill Boost since that's all it does lol. Are there any plans to expand on the guardian aspect, when I first saw it I imagined you would be given the opportunity to increase xp gains, attributes, possibly enfeeble the foe or other things that would enhance your chances to win. Or even on the flip side maybe have guardian aspects that enhance the mob in certain ways to increase the reward for the extra threat imposed on the enemy, unlike the star rank concept the specific boost could influence drop rates or unlock hidden leves.

Seriously just look at the game you have on hand, while I know you are focusing on changing the core, if you don't take the time to realize what you have to work with and how you can expand it you're just gonna turn XIV into a cliche MMO. There are a lot of things going for XIV that if you focus the team on expanding concepts rather then using up resources to change the game completely you might find yourself able to create more content at a quicker place rather then having to rebalanced everything because you changed the game completely.

Granted the last paragraph is a bit of a rant but I just wish the team could set up a plan on how to expand and evolve concepts rather then take huge steps back and rebalance everything because they are changing the game completely. I''ll definitely be giving the game another shot once the next patch comes out to see how the changes work and hope that they do work for the game but I am concerned that if it doesn't work you might find that the time spent using up those resources was a waste lol.

We may see some more surprises in 1.18 so gonna wait to see if its doom and gloom or subligar heaven.
Why release all the fun info before the actual patch :D

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In regards to 36 hour refresh time, the development team is looking into increasing the refresh time. In doing so, there may be the sense that there won't be anything to do, so they are considering possibly increasing the amount of leves you can hold at once. However, there are a lot of elements this would affect, so please let us know your thoughts and opinions.

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I'd much rather see the limit on how many leves you can do dropped completely.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I parsed some questions from throughout the thread and brought them up to the team. Without further ado...

We'll be making it so utilizing guardian's aspect will grant you a bonus at the time of defeating an enemy and also upon completion.

You will not receive the stored SP bonus if you fail to complete the levequest. For crafting local leves, if you need to succeed 4 times but only succeed 3 times and run out of materials you will not receive a bonus since the requirements were not met.

In regards to 36 hour refresh time, the development team is looking into increasing the refresh time. In doing so, there may be the sense that there won't be anything to do, so they are considering possibly increasing the amount of leves you can hold at once. However, there are a lot of elements this would affect, so please let us know your thoughts and opinions.

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Liking alot the info regarding levequests ^^ Today the community reps were specially fortunate regarding the news quality ^^ Keep the good work you guys ^^

People seem really nervous that the ability to get party SP is gone since we assumedly can't spam the same dunes/rr/levin/(toads) over and over for easy spammage SP. If you look at the last letter from the producer about Yoshi's level grind strategy:

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The ideal image is one where if you play every day for 2 hours or so, you will be able to reach the max cap on one class in about 3-4 months.

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This about sums up the changes to leve's, as right now it takes 5-6 weeks to get from 1-50. And this is only playing for 2 hours 5 days a week.

There are many places to level but the sp is just no where near the speed we have been getting used to with the leve failers set. I think this change was way overdue. In the 20-30 range you can grind in that dungeon south of bentbranch tam tara? Supports 2-3 parties I would think. Some areas of coerthas would be good for mid range as well.

By spreading out the population forcing ppl who want to grind to search out and explore for party spots I see this as a mandatory change for FFXIV to succeed. Imagine a player starts a new game for the first time in Grid and finds the world empty why would he bother trying to find Ul dah if no one is logged in his starting city? If they do a good job with this company quests I could see this further spreading out the populations.

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In regards to 36 hour refresh time, the development team is looking into increasing the refresh time. In doing so, there may be the sense that there won't be anything to do, so they are considering possibly increasing the amount of leves you can hold at once. However, there are a lot of elements this would affect, so please let us know your thoughts and opinions.

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I'm all for being able to carry more leves, even if it was just by one. Keep the current leve reset timer, 36 hours is long enough for when I don't feel like commiting more than a few hour a day to do all my leves before reset is up, yet not too long where I'm constantly waiting for reset (as opposed to the 24 hr/1 week reset timers for Warcraft). Ideally, you give us a separate carrying category for fieldcraft and double the locals capacity. Faction leves can be fit into either battlecraft or fieldcraft categories, depending on their objectives.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In regards to 36 hour refresh time, the development team is looking into increasing the refresh time. In doing so, there may be the sense that there won't be anything to do, so they are considering possibly increasing the amount of leves you can hold at once. However, there are a lot of elements this would affect, so please let us know your thoughts and opinions.

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I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the logic of this. If the team admits that increasing refresh time could possibly add to the sense of having nothing to do (which is already prevalent in many aspects of the game), why is it even being considered?

There is only one way I would be okay with increasing the refresh time, and that's if regional levequests were separated into 8 battlecraft leves and 8 fieldcraft leves per cycle. Even in that case, I think 36 hours is plenty long already.

But why not handle the refreshes differently altogether? Instead of saying "You can only do 8 levequests every 36 hours", why not say you can only do whatever levequests are available one time each, and those reset every, let's say, 7 days. So we can do every regional levequest at every adventurer counter one time per week. This would be about the same as it is right now, but it gives us more freedom to choose when and how much we do our levequests, while still having those limits SE loves so much.

It's time SE learned that the only way to remove the lifeless 24/7 players (I do not use the word "addict" because there is no such thing as video game addiction), the cheating botters, and the RMT groups from the game is to physically log them off. Those groups will find a way around any limit you put on them no matter what.

Analogy time. When I was in high school back in the 90's, the popular style was to carry your wallet attached to a chain (I think this is still popular among the emo crowd). The school considered them weapons, because in suburban Detroit so many kids get beaten with chains, right? At the same time they acknowledged that gentlemen fellows quite liked to carry their pocket-watches on chains (along with their kerchiefs and their snuff in the pockets of their pantaloons, good sir), so they said a pocket chain could be no more than 6 inches long. When the principal stopped my friend in the hallway and reminded him of this policy, my friend said, "If I have a 6 inch chain it just means I have to be that much closer to hit you with it." That was the last time I recall anyone getting hassled about their pocket chains.

Abraham Simpson mode off. The point is, If high school kids want to beat each other up, it doesn't matter if they have a 12 inch chain, or a 6 inch chain, or no chain at all. Likewise, if someone wants to grind away for 16 hours a day, they're gonna do it no matter how much fatigue nor how many quest limits you throw at them.

Some of you may say, "Kiki, I love the pony in your signature! But if you're a casual player these limits won't affect you, so why do you care?" Well, they do affect me. I'm sure they affect a great deal of people who also have full-time jobs and a limited amount of time to play. That's why I want them removed, or at the very least reduced. The game population in its entirety is being held back due to the actions of a few. That is not logical. Haven't you guys seen Star Trek II? And thank you. I think Rainbow Dash is awesome too.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Regarding searching for ways to rank up with the upcoming guildleve reform, I just recently posted a comment from Yoshida on that topic >> here.

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very nice ^^

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Vydarr,

You bring up some great points. :) I agree with most of them, but a few things to consider:

Re: Party Diversity - At first I was thinking of this as well, but remember one key thing Yoshida-san said - that Guildleves are going to be Solo-focused - there isn't going to be a need for Guildleve Parties the way we're used to, now.

So it's not going to be as much of an issue for Party Diversity for Guildleves, because they're going to be refocused to be more Solo activities.

In addition, people will get to a point where they don't need / want Guild Marks any more for their class. At that point, if they want to still do Leves with friends, they can go wherever suits them (but again it's more of a Solo activity now).

So for SP Parties (out in the open world), we can still have parties as they are and diversified just fine.


Re: the other changes and spreading the players out, I agree that right now, it's tough (with low populations), but at the same time, *something* needs to change. The game is stagnating, there are 2 entire Nations (LL, Gridania) that are ghost towns and abandoned, wasting away.

It'll be good to get some traffic and incentivize people to move about.

The status quo of everyone on the server sitting, crowded in Ul'dah all day and going to Broken Water only is making for a stagnant, boring and dying gameplay experience (even with its many conveniences).

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Good point, Kiara. You're right. Since leves are going to be primarily solo-content, party diversity in leves is not a concern. (Thanks for correcting me. :D)

I guess I'm mostly concerned about the timing of these changes.

They're taking away leves as party content before they add in other party content. They're (potentially) nerfing SP from leves before they add in other ways to get SP. They're forcing us to travel before they implement new ways to travel. They're sub-dividing the economy before they fix the economy. They're spreading out the population before the population increases.

I realize we should all be looking long term. And I hope to be here long term. I'm just concerned that the short term might end up being a drag. At least until they implement more stuff to fill the holes in content.

My primary problem with the game is lack of content. I understand that they can't add too much content until they fix the basic battle system. But they're taking away content before they add new stuff in to replace it. They're adding 2 dungeons, but they're taking away leves. Maybe the 2 dungeons will be more content than all the leves, but that would be pretty surprising.

Another example -- In the gathering Q&A, lots of people mentioned that fishing has grade 6 - 10 gathering nodes, but Mining and Botany only go up to grade 5. So people were asking for grades 6 to 10 for Mining and Botany. Instead, SE said they were going to be getting rid of the grades 6 -10 fishing nodes. So instead of adding in more content, they're taking it away.

Of course, 1.18 may have some surprises. Maybe it will actually increase the amount of content. So maybe I'm worried over nothing. Man, I really hope that's the case. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

Good point, Kiara. You're right. Since leves are going to be primarily solo-content, party diversity in leves is not a concern. (Thanks for correcting me. :D)

I guess I'm mostly concerned about the timing of these changes.

They're taking away leves as party content before they add in other party content. They're (potentially) nerfing SP from leves before they add in other ways to get SP. They're forcing us to travel before they implement new ways to travel. They're sub-dividing the economy before they fix the economy. They're spreading out the population before the population increases.

I realize we should all be looking long term. And I hope to be here long term. I'm just concerned that the short term might end up being a drag. At least until they implement more stuff to fill the holes in content.

My primary problem with the game is lack of content. I understand that they can't add too much content until they fix the basic battle system. But they're taking away content before they add new stuff in to replace it. They're adding 2 dungeons, but they're taking away leves. Maybe the 2 dungeons will be more content than all the leves, but that would be pretty surprising.

Another example -- In the gathering Q&A, lots of people mentioned that fishing has grade 6 - 10 gathering nodes, but Mining and Botany only go up to grade 5. So people were asking for grades 6 to 10 for Mining and Botany. Instead, SE said they were going to be getting rid of the grades 6 -10 fishing nodes. So instead of adding in more content, they're taking it away.

Of course, 1.18 may have some surprises. Maybe it will actually increase the amount of content. So maybe I'm worried over nothing. Man, I really hope that's the case. We'll probably just have to wait and see.

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Hi Vydarr,

Oh definitely, you have a right to be concerned (as am I). (^_^;

We can only hope 1.18 and 1.19's content and changes make up for the things they take away. Not sure if you saw it, but in one of the JP Interviews, they did mention that 1.18 is going to come with a major storyline (I'm guessing the opening of the Grand Companies of Eorzea / Garlean Empire Invasion / War).

Hopefully 1.18's The Dzemael Darkhold (R50 Dungeon) is tied into a long term Grand Company progression and rank / reputation system, where we can earn rare items and rewards. :)

No matter what, I hope for the best. Soon! :)

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

I'm more concerned if they'll up the chances of getting marks from leves. Since I usually went from UD to LL to see if I could get guild marks. Grid sometimes to if I had some leather to skill up on.

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Hopefully they'll also increase the number of leves available per reset, that way you can have a slightly higher chance of getting leves with guild marks while leaving options open for those who want gil/loot rather than marks. I sigh when the "good" levels give marks for a class I don't plan to level past 20 due to lack of actual alternatives in that region.

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Originally Posted by Technyze

i hate leve in general, can we just delete them?

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Just don't do them then. Fixed.

Q.Q Don't increase the time...at least not in the near future. Until there is some content added to the game and means to party with others and such. One of the things that made me a loyal ffxi player was the hustle and bustle of the game. To me at least there always seemed like there was something to be done.

FFXI continues to be my main game and I gather with my friends in the evening. Therefore I only play this game during the daytime when there are few English speaking players on so therefore I have been strictly a solo player up til now and cannot comment to much on the party aspects to the game. Before you ask I am 64 and retired living on a fixed income so therfore I have alot of time to play.Having said all that here are my impressions on the upcoming changes.

1. I have already commented in previous post that I believe SE put the cart before the horse. They should have developed the new content needed to implement the changes they are proposing for 1.18. Wether you play solo or in parties these changes will leave large gaps in playability

2. at present time I can complete 8 local levees and 8 Regional Battle Quest in about 5 hour. That 5 hours is valid even if I have to travel to Uldah from Limsa to round out my lists. Gridania is strictly a no go for me as I will waste neither the time nor the Anima traveling there. So, unless they increase the number of Levee Quests and increase the number of quest for each level group an increase in the reset time is an utter waste. I already use 2 accounts to fill the time that is alloted now.

3, I have stopped playing my level 45 Mrd until I see if the new system fixes the problems that I see in regards to the player/mob relationship. I am tired of gearing up in level appropriate equipment and finding out that I am having difficulties hitting mob 3-5 levels below me because SE doesn't have a clue as to how to compute Acc.

4. The proposals for the redistribution of the bonus SP are fine by me as I always complete my quests. Only difference I should see are those associated with computing the bonuses. Only problem is there will be no real SP for ranks 45-50 under the new system unless they add quests for that level group. <see point 1>


I am probably reiterating points made by others in this post but Bayohne asked for feed back and here is mine