This thread is about butts.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

So what are you saying? We shouldn't call them out on this unappealing decision because the developer is always right and never does anything wrong? We shouldn't demand better character models even though we had them in 1.0 already? Even though most equipment is STILL fitted for 1.0 bodies?

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Following "So what are you saying?" with questions regarding fantastical opinions almost entirely irrelevant to the quoted post does not actually make those the opinions of the poster.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Look, whatever, nobody cares, all of this is moot point.

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Yet threads keep cropping up for it.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

It's just not going to happen. And if it does, we're talking seasons from now, if even that.

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Wrong. It's a completle possibility that it could happen, no-one is expecting to log in next week to a "Pancake > Watermellon" slider.

If you'd read my post I actually mentioned that if this were to be done it'd be a very low priority (And If I didn't mention it or didn't make it clear enough)
This is a VERY low priority, but still someting people care about just becauase YOU personally don't care/mind doesn't mean others think the same.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Uhh. The only reason i'm even still bothering with this topic is because of the amount of people who blindly throw around words like "SIMPLE FIX", trying to imply laziness to every issue Square doesn't hold in equal priority to their own. I'm just trying to stop the spreading of ignorance, which is a personal pet-peeve of mine.

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In this case there is a potential "simple fix" hence why my "lolsemanticsihatereading" post you so easily dismissed explained.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

At the end of the day, i mean....I really don't care.

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Then why respond?

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Originally Posted by Edellis

i'd much rather you guys petition square to reimplement the use of dynamic animation to the models, since that would provide a much more significant increase in quality to pretty much everyone if they were able to pull it off.

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You're confusing departments.

A lead animator isn't going to even look more than once at a "Fix butts for 2.3" on the priority list, it's almost negligible to them.
This is a problem for a different department.

There are various teams split into priorities as Yoshi-P explained, but also in general games development.

Something along the lines of;
1# Immediate Fixes/Hotfixes/Critical Errors
2# Patch 2.2 - Major Content Production
#2-3 Post 2.3 minor changes
#3 Patch 2.3 Major Content Production
#4 Expansion Content
#5 Future content post expansion

Each department would either be split or sectioned off or completley focusing on one of these levels, claiming that "Fixing the buttocks" would affect a lead animator is ridiculous, sorry but it is.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

But by all means, do not let me poop on your parade.

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A little late for that, you already did. But I can guarantee you people will still want it.



TL;DR

Every request is considered, especially ones that have been rejected yet still garner a large amount of attention/response.
You are not a special snowflakes, and neither is anyone else for that matter.
There IS a simple fix (there are more complex ones too)
Animation has nothing to do with Butts.
If you didn't care you wouldn't have responded.

Best thread ever.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

You are attempting to present your personal opinion concerning what Miqo'te proportions should be, which you admittedly share with many others, as a standard to govern SE's aesthetic choices - which it is not.

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SE did not reduce the models for aesthetic reasons. They changed the models to what we have now to ease the process of remaking all the leg gear from 1.0 for the new system in 2.0 because they were on a tight schedule. They standardized the lower body for all races. We aren't trying to make our opinion the standard, we are urging the devs to rebuild the models to what they were originally, before 2.0, now that the game is up and running. The proportions now aren't right for humans or miqo'te, even by SE's aesthetic standard. It's a Band-Aid for a different problem.

tldr: The models we have now are not in line with miqo'te's actual concept, it's a reduced model to make the conversion of gear to 2.0 faster across all races.

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Originally Posted by Knives

we are urging the devs to rebuild the models to what they were originally,

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Thankfully they don't have to be rebuilt, as there are many ways around it, but bear in mind what I'm suggesting is something for a future consideration.
Not just yourself but anyone else responding, please understand this is a consideration/suggestion for a solution, NOT a demand.

There's a procedure known a mesh deformer (which sadly when you google it brings up nothing but Second Life now-a-days) as they seem to have added a Parametric Deformer of sorts however they seem to be using it from what I've seen in the exact same way I'm suggesting from what I've read so it's worth having a quick google for.

Actually this video I found pretty much explains what a mesh deformer does, this seems to be an early version of whatever it was they were making though;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoOywmSKG2k#t=75

If you didn't want to watch that, simply when they increased the "proportions" of the body, the mesh deformed to fit (albeit slightly buggy/experimental code that they're using).

A mesh deformer is a set area on a skeleton fore example; The Waist/Pelvic area based on the weighted area, which allows you to set a parameter of lets say -0.25cm within a certain range of the original location on the overall 3D mesh.

You "paint" onto a 3D model where you want each skeletal joint to influence the 3D model for animating (see below for an example), so in the case of the waist area you can have a parameter that the weights on the back of the model extrude slightly creating the "butt shape" whilst extruding the topology of the other meshes, or or vice-versa "push" the butt back in when it's not needed to be extruded.

http://download.autodesk.com/global/...lorFeeback.png

In laymans terms, using what you already have you can have it set so the butt actually "pushes" things away, this deformer the development team actually already have in the game so if the time were taken and it proved that it wasn't a resource hog and most importantly they had the time to waste on it, this would be ONE solution out of many.

You would be no means have to go back and adjust /every/ single model, that would be a horrendous task, I would never want them to have to do that as the time required to do so would be phenomenal.

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Originally Posted by Knives

tldr: The models we have now are not in line with miqo'te's actual concept, it's a reduced model to make the conversion of gear to 2.0 faster across all races.

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Citation needed. (Disappointing if that is indeed the case, though it doesn't change the fact that I'm rather pleased with the status quo.)

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Citation needed. (Disappointing if that is indeed the case, though it doesn't change the fact that I'm rather pleased with the status quo.)

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Yes, ignore all valid points against your posts and pick out something because there was no easily found citation. You are great at debating 10/10

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Yes, ignore all valid points against your posts and pick out something because there was no easily found citation. You are great at debating 10/10

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Version 1.0 was accidently launched with a bugged Miqo'te model that used the human bottom half when not in smallclothes. The current model is what was intended.

I can't really back that up, just take my word for it.

Don't try and compare them either, if you have screenshots. Some kind of aspect ratio change between 1.0 and 2.0 or something like that... No proof on that one either. Word's gold though.

You get the point.

(Did you not get the part where I conceded the point, granted there was any truth to the statement? It was right before I said I liked the existing model regardless. I know two sentences is a lot to take in at once..., and one even had a comma which I'll admit was borderline cheating on my part - but bear with me here.)

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Version 1.0 was accidently launched with a bugged Miqo'te model that used the human bottom half when not in smallclothes. The current model is what was intended.

I can't really back that up, just take my word for it.

Don't try and compare them either, if you have screenshots. Some kind of aspect ratio change between 1.0 and 2.0 or something like that... No proof on that one either. Word's gold though.

You get the point.

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Took me under 1 minute. THERE YOU GO

Here is the translation

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Hello,
Lead designer Takeo Suzuki here.

We understand that you all care deeply for the detail and shape of your characters, and while the development team is really happy about this, we would like to keep the specifications for character’s butts as they are.

I’d like to explain a bit about why we changed the shape of character model’s butts. It all began when Yoshi-P and the character team sat down and reconsidered what should be prioritized for players when we moved from 1.0 to A Realm Reborn.

Based on this discussion it was decided to place emphasis on the below:
• New races (male Miqo’te, female Highlanders, and female Roegadyn.)
• Increase the amount of content and the amount of reward items (equipment and weapons)
(We want to make a team that can create more than four times the amount of rewards compared to what there was originally.)

As a result of thinking about what could be done to fulfill the above objectives all while converting everything over and optimizing all the data by completely remaking the graphics engine, we decided to reduce the cost by simplifying items that were too complex when making them. One aspect of this was the graphical display of waist equipment.

I deeply apologize for those of you who were really partial to what Miqo’tes looked like in 1.0, but this decision was made so we could relaunch with new races and a lot of new equipment. We will be implementing a wide variety of really cool looking equipment moving forward, and we appreciate your understanding on this.

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If you look at this thread there are posts showing examples of the change. If you look at the previous thread this came from (which is locked now) you will find more examples.

EDIT: I am arguing the point that you even argue the validity of this. It's astounding. It's like a person walking into a bar with blood, broken glass, and broken tables everywhere saying "Where's proof there was a fight here?"
On top of that you edit your post to insult me? Wow.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

[snip]

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

What are you even trying to argue at this point?

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If you'd refer back to the OP, and the ~13 pages of conversation since - my arguement is now and has been since the beginning that I rather like Miqo'te butts the way they are and would prefer not to see them changed. I'm putting forth my opinion, which, unless I'm grossly mistaken, was more or less the point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

If you'd refer back to the OP, and the ~13 pages of conversation since - my arguement is now and has been since the beginning that I rather like Miqo'te butts the way they are and would prefer not to see them changed. I'm putting forth my opinion, which, unless I'm grossly mistaken, was more or less the point of the thread.

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And instead of arguing for options (like others have) you'd rather only you get what you want because reasons?

My gripe with you is that you attack the validity of people's claims because they disagree with yours. You wanna put your opinion out there? cool. You wanna ignore the negative responses to your opinion? cool. You wanna tell someone their claim has no water until mister snowflake gets a citation? not cool.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

And instead of arguing for options (like others have) you'd rather only you get what you want because reasons? Cooooooooool

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And you would rather have the option because... reasons? Sure, we all have our reasons. Miqo'te butts are of the utmost importance, after all.

Some asked for options, some, such as the OP, asked for a complete reversion. I don't care for the option and would prefer the design team focused their efforts elsewhere. Would I be horribly offended were they to implement an option? Of course not. I'd be a lot more excited if they upped the texture resolution on the Royal set though.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

And you would rather have the option because... reasons? Sure, we all have our reasons. Miqo'te butts are of the utmost importance, after all.

Some asked for options, some, such as the OP, asked for a complete reversion. I don't care for the option and would prefer the design team focused their efforts elsewhere. Would I be horribly offended were they to implement an option? Of course not. I'd be a lot more excited if they upped the texture resolution on the Royal set though.

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I'm for those options because it bothers me in a game that I play quite frequently. Myself and others have made that clear as day

Why you're against something that won't affect you but are for something that's also a change to improve aesthetics is beyond me. Also, since you like to edit your posts you should look back at my edits in response as you've only responded to unedited posts.

no wonder the butt threads keep getting locked.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I'm for those options because it bothers me in a game that I play quite frequently. Myself and others have made that clear as day

Why you're against something that won't affect you but are for something that's also a change to improve aesthetics is beyond me. Also, since you like to edit your posts you should look back at my edits in response as you've only responded to unedited posts.

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Yes, I do edit posts regularly. You can tell by the "Last edited by Lurkios;" flag at the bottom of most of them. Occasionally someone is in mid-reply. Inconvenient, I'm sure - though nothing I said was designed to be particularly insulting, sarcastic perhaps - maybe "snarky". I like that word.

Your edit regarding the bar fight may as well have been intended to prove my statement regarding the lack of evidence attached to things people say on the Internet. A bloody nose, broken glass, that's evidence. An interesting tangent but somewhat irrelevent to the conversation.

You say the option would "improve" aesthetics, I disagree. Your opinion vs my opinion. I'm honestly not sure how I could make that any clearer to you.

You say it won't affect me, however I'd argue that time spent implementing features I don't care for in a game detracts from time spent implementing features I do care about. Selfish? Sure. I don't deny that.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but you seem to be taking this conversation very seriously - I'd ask that you not, I'm entirely incapable of being serious about a 14 page thread revolving around that state of Miqo'te butts.

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Originally Posted by WendyDarling

no wonder the butt threads keep getting locked.

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I just wanted to quote that.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Perhaps I'm mistaken but you seem to be taking this conversation very seriously

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I did find that you needed someone to give you a citation to something easily found a bit irritating but my seriousness ends there.

I want them to change this (along with others) and if someone disagrees, I'm going to reply with counter points. There's nothing very "serious" about it. And that post seems do be directed towards you as well.

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Perhaps I'm mistaken but you seem to be taking this conversation very seriously - I'd ask that you not, I'm entirely incapable of being serious about a 14 page thread revolving around that state of Miqo'te butts.

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We are taking it seriously because it is just as lead designer Takeo Suzuki, said.

There are those of us that "care deeply for the detail and shape of our characters".

From what I understand they made it so all character models were very close in shape, or closer in shape to each other, so reducing Miqo'te and Hyur Lower body so that it was closer to the lower body of a Male Hyur, I'm guessing this way it was easier to produce equipment faster so they could meet the launch of 2.0 with lots of gear in the game.

What we are requesting, now that FFXIV has had time to mature(its been many month's since launch), Is that sometime in the future they return the lower body of female characters back to what they were before it was altered, or add a character slider so people that prefer the new look can keep it the same while people that prefer the old look can have that as well.

This being said, I would prefer myself that they add a character slider, this way our characters can look more diverse rather than cookie cutters of another. Adding more diversity into the look of MMO characters draws more players to the game, since people love more options.

On a side note: Just because the word "Butt" is used is not an invitation to not take a post seriously and argue especially when it concerns a serious matter,*I feel it just shows how immature/mature you are to be honest* if you would take the time to carefully read the reasoning to why we are concerned then you might have a second opinion. Nevertheless, If you enjoy the way Miqo'te look now then instead of being against us, try to offer alternatives so that we can get the old model, and have the option to keep the newer one.

If you want to blame someone than blame chest faction!
because they need to waste time too adjusted armor to every chest size they end up removing round rear
(everyone was asking for chest size from 1.0 till 2.0 beta)

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Originally Posted by Greed

If you want to blame someone than blame chest faction!
because they need to waste time too adjusted armor to every chest size they end up removing round rear
(everyone was asking for chest size from 1.0 till 2.0 beta)

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I'd rather have an actual behind instead of a boob slider to be honest. Also, why can they adjust all the armor for different breat sizes, but have to reduce butts and hips to standardize armors...

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Originally Posted by Elazu

I'd rather have an actual behind instead of a bood slider to be honest. Also, why can they adjust all the armor for different breat sizes, but have to reduce butts and hips to standardize armors...

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I actually asked my self the same question.

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Originally Posted by Kantide

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Originally Posted by Rex

Get it...because...that also involves....a butt...

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Don't make someone else the butt of the jo...ke... crap...

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...Butt it's so much fun..


...Hehehehe...

Couldn't help myself, Hildabrand is just striking the perfect pose for this thread, lol.

http://i.imgur.com/I9pONqG.png

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

This being said, I would prefer myself that they add a character slider, this way our characters can look more diverse rather than cookie cutters of another. Adding more diversity into the look of MMO characters draws more players to the game, since people love more options.

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I don't really see why they shouldn't be working on adding more manipulation of physical proportions into the character builder THAT ALREADY HAS A BREAST SIZE SLIDER so...yeah I'm with this.

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

I don't really see why they shouldn't be working on adding more manipulation of physical proportions into the character builder THAT ALREADY HAS A BREAST SIZE SLIDER so...yeah I'm with this.

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Yup!

It's completely possible as the """technology""" you could call it, that does this "push" can be used on the buttocks actually.
As it's essentially the same thing I mentioned earlier.

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Originally Posted by Kittra

Couldn't help myself, Hildabrand is just striking the perfect pose for this thread, lol.

http://i.imgur.com/I9pONqG.png

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I bet you even Hildibrands ass didn't survive the Calamity...

mrw i scrolled upon this thread

http://media0.giphy.com/media/LjIn8IjwFcbwA/giphy.gif

A game this advanced and dedicated shouldn't have to cut corners like this. For some of us, looking at our pretty characters while sitting in town is a way of passing time. It's part of the content and should be up to a higher standard.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

A game this advanced and dedicated shouldn't have to cut corners like this. For some of us, looking at our pretty characters while sitting in town is a way of passing time. It's part of the content and should be up to a higher standard.

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Very true.
This is also SE we're talking about not some wee indy developer.
Moreover, they're usually very twitchy when it comes to things looking bad.
If I recall correctly, one of the reasons they didn't give XIII an open world is so that we could see how shiny everything was.... and yet, here we get clipping everywhere and characters that just look unfinished.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

A game this advanced and dedicated shouldn't have to cut corners like this. For some of us, looking at our pretty characters while sitting in town is a way of passing time. It's part of the content and should be up to a higher standard.

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It's the price you pay for having to remake your game from the ground up in two years.

You cut corners to get things out faster. (Although hopefully now that the game has actually turned some large profits they'll consider a broader and more careful development in the future)

One would think Profits = More care, but who knows...

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

ALREADY HAS A BREAST SIZE SLIDER

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I just want to point this out for extra emphasis. There's absolutely no real reason why we can't have it

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I just want to point this out for extra emphasis. There's absolutely no real reason why we can't have it

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They would have to spend countless hours readjusting gear size/shape around this. I guess they see their time better spent elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Libby9

They would have to spend countless hours readjusting gear size/shape around this. I guess they see their time better spent elsewhere.

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Nope, a mesh deformer would suffice.

And would require considerably less effort. You wouldn't have to go back and adjust every model.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Nope, a mesh deformer would suffice.

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It's funny I thought they had something like this in the "Making of 1.0" videos. they had a system where the gear dynamically to fit each race, it seems they threw alot of things out with 1.0 sort of threw the baby out with the bathwater on some things though I think.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It's funny I thought they had something like this in the "Making of 1.0" videos. they had a system where the gear dynamically to fit each race, it seems they threw alot of things out with 1.0 sort of threw the baby out with the bathwater on some things though I think.

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The system is still there.

Put on the BLM AF body and wear any type of elbow length gloves, or put on a pair of boots over some trousers.

The system is still there, but they don't seem to want to use it, (for whatever reason)

I agree we need Butt Sliders. This is not hard, even an amateur work team can make this posible.

Some posters in this topic. "Think" you need 500 men for make this posible....

Even Tera a Free to play Game added LEgs, height and boobs sliders, but nah ARR being a P2P game cant add those features.

I 200% support this thread.

But lets say they finally add this, we will now need to receive a free Phial of Fantasia to fix our existing characters.
I wouldn't want to be stuck wth this flat ass because i already used my Phial(s).

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Nope, a mesh deformer would suffice.

And would require considerably less effort. You wouldn't have to go back and adjust every model.

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Not to mention that most gear in the game is still fitted for 1.0 models anyway...

Ever noticed the huge gaps on hips and behinds on almost everything? That is where the missing 1.0 hips and butts fit in.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

I agree we need Butt Sliders.

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I think we need plenty more customization options on the character builder. It's nice as it is, but having a boob size slider sitting there being the blatant odd one out is a bit dumb. Let people alter the proportions of their characters more freely, behinds or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Libby9

They would have to spend countless hours readjusting gear size/shape around this. I guess they see their time better spent elsewhere.

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possibly most of the time spent converting the armors to a medium that ffxiv can read. it would take only a few minutes to adjust each armor to the new shape, as only one area is altered.

don't they have more than a handful of 3d designers working on this anyway?

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Nope, a mesh deformer would suffice.

And would require considerably less effort. You wouldn't have to go back and adjust every model.

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this. though i think there might be clipping if they didn't fine tune.

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Originally Posted by Libby9

They would have to spend countless hours readjusting gear size/shape around this. I guess they see their time better spent elsewhere.

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What could better than spending countless hours "on" butts?

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

though i think there might be clipping if they didn't fine tune.

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Not like they seem to care much about clipping in the first place.