Main Story now for the hardcore elite only

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Isn't good king moogles the only msq primal after the hm Titan, Garuda, ifrit? I thought the extremes had a seperatly quest.

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Yes, Good King Moogle Mog XII is part of the mainstory.
But the hard mode primals not. They are part of the "Chronicles of a New Era" storyline

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...t/?category2=2

If the quest to the content don't have the main story icon, it is not a part of the main story.

Bye.

Take care.

Well, I place myself on the "casual" scale, but I'm definitely interested in trying out coil and I'm not a bad player, I have full DL gear and my relic +1. My problem is finding a group to do coil with… I'm sure that I'm not alone about this, due to the weekly lockout problem.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

probably will make your relic weapon +2.

I hope they nerf 1-5 coils in 2.2 so I can go in there casually :D

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It's people like you who will ruin this game.

How about put a group together and go in and spend some time learning the fights instead of trying to have everything handed to you.

The only turn in coil that is remotely a challenge is turn 5 atm. People just dont want to spend the time gearing themselves correctly and learning the fights. Everyone wants the easy route...

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Originally Posted by TatamiTami

Well, I place myself on the "casual" scale, but I'm definitely interested in trying out coil and I'm not a bad player, I have full DL gear and my relic +1. My problem is finding a group to do coil with… I'm sure that I'm not alone about this, due to the weekly lockout problem.

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There is always plenty of people looking for Coil Turn 1 and 2 during the week in revenants toll, even the party finder has one up once in a while. You could always start a group yourself and ask for players.

The nerf for coil is already planned and will come when turn 6-10 are released. This is a fact.

Hard Mode primals aren't for hardcore players, there doable in iLvl 70 gear or mix and match lvl 60-80 gear and some simple coordination. Just know your phases.

Even Extreme mode Primals are classified as ilvl 70. Hell even Ultima is ilvl 70, hardly hardcore.

For me in principle, I dislike a story mode that is dependent on a coop or party. Hardness is irrelevant, you can have a single person mission that is quite hard. The whole idea I must complete the story quest dependent on other players is just plain annoying. The game industry will harakiri itself on this stupid principle. Fortunately there are enough people playing Titan HM but it does not excuse the whole concept. Going to punish myself later as soon as Dark Souls 2 comes out.

People still have trouble with titan?

Putting Good King Muggle Muck, which is essentially a hard mode primal a little above Garuda, into the main story, was just plain stupid. But its really just more the same hardass, elitist pandering, exclusionary BS that Square-Enix was notorious for back in FFXI. I know all the hard cores in their raiding guilds love it, because it isn't an issue for them, and screw anyone who doesn't play like them, but seriously, it sucks.

Of course, the first pages of responses was mostly the, predictable, self congratulatory arrogance I expect from a complaint thread.

Wow, didn't know farming 200 philo with duty roullete and getting free il70 gear was considered hard core. In that case, I'm Super Duper Extreme Hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Docturne

It's people like you who will ruin this game.

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If anything will ruin this game, is all the tryhards that makes the game less and less fun to play.

And everyone wants the easy route, including the "hardcores" wanting a average gear level of 80+ to do content tuned for level 61, or that only tries it after someone spoon feeds them the strategy with a video guide, or stops trying after 10 minutes. Content that's been out for a few days, no less.

Something tells me that those are exactly the kind of people that comes in those threads posing as elite.

Edit: I, too, want the easy route. I'm not stressing myself to beat anything, if it means waiting for nerfs, so be it.

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Originally Posted by Syrellaris

Hell even Ultima is ilvl 70, hardly hardcore.

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Ultima is level 61, just a bit harder than Titan HM.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Gotta wonder how these people would survive in a pre-abyssea CoP storyline in XI.

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they played wow otherwise this would be cake.

I'm ok with stuff being harder, I am not really ok with killing Garuda and Titan a THIRD time to advance the quest line(s). Come on SE, find some inspiration in something else. Nobody wants to beat the same stuff over and over, even if the fights are made harder.

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Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique

Putting Good King Muggle Muck, which is essentially a hard mode primal a little above Garuda, into the main story, was just plain stupid. But its really just more the same hardass, elitist pandering, exclusionary BS that Square-Enix was notorious for back in FFXI. I know all the hard cores in their raiding guilds love it, because it isn't an issue for them, and screw anyone who doesn't play like them, but seriously, it sucks.

Of course, the first pages of responses was mostly the, predictable, self congratulatory arrogance I expect from a complaint thread.

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Do you think there should be a game out there for the people who enjoy this sort of thing, considering the trend of every other game is overwhelmingly against it? Just your honest thoughts.

I think there should be a game for everyone.

I thought Yoshi P was pretty clear that newer hard content was going to be designed for hardcore players to get the first chance at it, and the previous hardest content would be nerfed to allow casuals to progress. This is really the only perk that hardcores get in a game designed to be casual friendly.

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Originally Posted by waldo

I'm ok with stuff being harder, I am not really ok with killing Garuda and Titan a THIRD time to advance the quest line(s). Come on SE, find some inspiration in something else. Nobody wants to beat the same stuff over and over, even if the fights are made harder.

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You don't have to fight them again to advance in the story, the only Primal you need to fight is Good King Moggle Mog XII and the fight is not that difficult. We beat it on my main on our second time entering. Its nearly identical to the v1 fight and half our pt was in ak gear, we beat it just fine. Otherwise its mostly fetch quests again.

As for extreme modes, even though its the same mobs the fights are a whole lot more fun, garuda hm would be considered em in v1 so Im glad they put some challenge in there cause hm primals so far have been a joke.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

You don't have to fight them again to advance in the story, the only Primal you need to fight is Good King Moggle Mog XII and the fight is not that difficult. We beat it on my main on our second time entering. Its nearly identical to the v1 fight and half our pt was in ak gear, we beat it just fine. Otherwise its mostly fetch quests again..

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Q56: Will the extreme primal battles be part of the main story and/or be tied with the relic quest?

A56: Yes.

Your version and this ^ conflicts. And I'm not arguing for 1 second the fun factor of these fights, all I'm saying is to advance a quest you kill the same 3 (ifrit/Garuda/Titan) twice is bordering lame, three times and you are deep into the 'this again' territory.
Come up with something new is all I'm saying. King XII excluded, good job SE on tha one.

oh I was talking main story line.

Im totally fine with having to complete extreme modes to advance your relic. They should be something we have to WORK for anyway, as it stands now they are practically handed to us. Takes just a few hrs to make a relic and that's ridiculous.

Besides whats so bad about having to do a fight 2-3 times, in other game *cough XI cough* we farmed dyna twice a week for literally YEARS with no duty finder and having to find 18 ppl. Same content 2 times a week for that long is nothing compared to facing the same mob in completely different fights/difficulties 3 times. Even empyreans required you to farm up ki and fight the same nm 25-50 times to get a slight upgrade and then you had to do that 2 more times again. And dont even get me started on mythics, omg that was painful. Idk what they did in other games since WoW and EQ and what not never really appealed to me but its really not that bad

Difficult battles in a video game is not being hardcore. It's just being a video game.

Somewhere along the lines of Mmos hardcore went from being mindlessly grinding hours on end days of te week away to obtain the best and having everything done doen to a science to simply meaning "anything that is kind of hard."

The sewers CoP mission from XI was harder than all of relic quest.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Gotta wonder how these people would survive in a pre-abyssea CoP storyline in XI.

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FFXI was actually a fun Game! can't say too much about FFXIV will stick it out one more month!

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Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique

Putting Good King Muggle Muck, which is essentially a hard mode primal a little above Garuda, into the main story, was just plain stupid. But its really just more the same hardass, elitist pandering, exclusionary BS that Square-Enix was notorious for back in FFXI. I know all the hard cores in their raiding guilds love it, because it isn't an issue for them, and screw anyone who doesn't play like them, but seriously, it sucks.

Of course, the first pages of responses was mostly the, predictable, self congratulatory arrogance I expect from a complaint thread.

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Good King Moogle Mog XII is not a hard mode primal because he would need to be first a primal for it

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Do you think there should be a game out there for the people who enjoy this sort of thing, considering the trend of every other game is overwhelmingly against it? Just your honest thoughts.

I think there should be a game for everyone.

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Enjoy what sort of thing? Being forced into hard mode fights just to get the basic story finished? No there shouldn't be. Why? Because its exclusionary, and doesn't appeal to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Good King Moogle Mog XII is not a hard mode primal because he would need to be first a primal for it

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Wrong. The difficulty is the equivalent of a hard mode primal by default, and the next patch will include an extreme mode. Thus, Moogle Mog starts at hard mode, and then becomes extreme. The only thing missing the actual term. Kind of like theater cup sizes beginning at large.

That's where I disagree with you, because I think there should be a game out there for everyone, not every game trying to appeal to everyone. Preferences in game design conflict irreconcilability so your idea of a game that appeals to everyone is impossible, and in fact by saying there shouldn't be a game for people who enjoy doing HM primals as part of the story you have excluded those players.

If someone's enjoyment of a game depends on the exclusion of others that's their business, they can do what they want with their own leisure time they're not obliged to make others entertained as well. It's not illegitimate.

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Originally Posted by ReviiLagoon

People still have trouble with titan?

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We were still running a waitlist selling triple-carries last night.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

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Maybe you should get to 50 before you start complaining about end game content? Just an idea.

The main problem with your argument is that Binding Coil of Bahamut is already part of the main story and has been since Launch, and while there has never been a gear requirement for it before, there is now.

I love going through the story. And making it a challenge to do so makes me feel like I really had to struggle to achieve the goals of the story, which would make sense in the context of the story. Fighting the Primals in Hard or Extreme mode are not supposed to be power-trip "Yeah, I'm a badass and these bosses are inferior" moments. They're meant to push you to your limits.

Besides, anyone can earn Gear Level 70 if they put in the rounds. You can play as casually as you like, so long as you're actually playing the content that gives you tomes on a regular basis. I mean yeah, if you were driven enough, a fresh 50 could get full gear level 70 in a couple of days without an issue. But if you aren't and you want to progress at a steadier pace, you have the daily duty finder stuff. You have the tribal quest dailies. Those yield tomes. Crystal Tower is only Item Level 55 and gives out Item Level 80 gear. Most of the endgame dungeons award items ranging in level from 55-60. All of the endgame dungeons yield Tomes, which you can use to get Level 70 gear.

I dunno. I just think it's silly to say it's for the "Hardcore Elite" when I seldom ever reach half my myth quota, I've been playing the game since beta, and I only reached Item Level 73 a couple days ago. If it were for the hardcore elite, you'd have to complete near-impossible tasks, like Turn 5 with Level 50 gear, in order to get anywhere in the plot.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Maybe you should get to 50 before you start complaining about end game content? Just an idea.

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Eh, it's kinda like with him if you mention FFXI he'll go on a rant about stuff that hasn't been true since 2003.

Go back to Farmville scrubs.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

That's where I disagree with you, because I think there should be a game out there for everyone, not every game trying to appeal to everyone. Preferences in game design conflict irreconcilability so your idea of a game that appeals to everyone is impossible, and in fact by saying there shouldn't be a game for people who enjoy doing HM primals as part of the story you have excluded those players.

If someone's enjoyment of a game depends on the exclusion of others that's their business, they can do what they want with their own leisure time they're not obliged to make others entertained as well. It's not illegitimate.

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Well said.
The main storyline doesn't have to exclude any fight or dungeon remotely challenging for completion.
A main story is a single player game carry-over.
It's not like those games(particularly in the FF series) never have challenging areas or bosses to keep things interesting.

Difference - it relies on other people as well.
But this is an MMO, so that design had to be adapted.
You don't need a static to down King Mog. So, how is this hardcore?
If it was a Coil turn required, I may see the point.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Q56: Will the extreme primal battles be part of the main story and/or be tied with the relic quest?

A56: Yes.

Your version and this ^ conflicts. And I'm not arguing for 1 second the fun factor of these fights, all I'm saying is to advance a quest you kill the same 3 (ifrit/Garuda/Titan) twice is bordering lame, three times and you are deep into the 'this again' territory.
Come up with something new is all I'm saying. King XII excluded, good job SE on tha one.

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They have nothing to do with either.

At the moment, HM Titan is not required to progress the storyline past the Praetorium. I've only fought HM Ifrit, and I can access Thornmarch now. Hard mode is marked as storyline but is not a requirement to continue on the storyline path like Guildheists are, it will probably be the same for Extreme Mode. I heard the Moogle King fight was difficult, but until the requirement to fight one story boss is to suddenly have all i90 equipment when the last requirement for a story boss/dungeon was i50, I wouldn't consider it elitist or extreme.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

There's the proof.

SE are making Hard and Extreme modes part of the main story so only hardcore players capable of defeating the hardest content in the game will be able to continue the main story.

So for the majority of players who will never beat Titan HM or beyond the Main Story ended with Praetorium.

Time to look for another game it seems.

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If you don't complete content because it is hard, that's your problem not SE. You don't deserve the story if you can't complete the content. Guess what happens if you can't complete the content in any other game? You never progress the story, (and in most cases never progress the game). You should probably just not buy any games at all since you are so incompetent and just watch the stories on youtube or twitch feeds. I think those options would suit your lifestyle better than trying to play difficult games.

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Originally Posted by Rinpu

I heard the Moogle King fight was difficult.

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It's not, I completed it a couple times with duty finder pugs. Everyone just needs to pay attn. and coordinate with others. Tank marking mog order is a great help too.

Idk how ppl can complain about fights that are in any way shape or form difficult. Whats the point of playing a game if you can just breeze through everything? If you want that, refer to that past poster and go back to Farmville cause an action rpg game is obviously not your cup of tea.

Devs have to make content that appeals to all, and no one is technically excluded. Even if you only have an hr to play a day they are not really locking you out of content, you can still do it, it may just take you a lil longer than others.

This Veruca Salt "Daddy, I want it NOW" thing is getting ridiculous. You kids need to learn in life you don't get a trophy just for showing up.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

You kids need to learn in life you don\\\\'t get a trophy just for showing up.

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QFT

/10char

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

There's the proof.

SE are making Hard and Extreme modes part of the main story so only hardcore players capable of defeating the hardest content in the game will be able to continue the main story.

So for the majority of players who will never beat Titan HM or beyond the Main Story ended with Praetorium.

Time to look for another game it seems.

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How the hell is this proof of anything exactly? The question asked was whether the extreme fights would factor into the main story OR future relic quests. Notice the word OR in there.

The provided response was a simple "yes" which means that the extreme fights could factor into the main story, EXTREMELY unlikely, OR they could factor into future relic quests, EXTREMELY likely.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

iLv70 is nothing. seriously.

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ilvl 70 is full DL and relic... >.> It's super easy to get DL.

Last I checked Extreme Primals were optional, not part of the main story.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

This Veruca Salt "Daddy, I want it NOW" thing is getting ridiculous. You kids need to learn in life you don't get a trophy just for showing up.

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While I do agree with you about not getting a gold star just for participating, I suppose I wasn't clear on what I was trying to convey. Especially since you homed in on what I had heard and did not take into consideration the "but" for that sentence which had nothing to do with your mini-rant. I do enjoy challenges, but just because I get distracted with other things so I haven't attempted HM Garuda or Thornmarch, has nothing to do with avoiding something because of it being "too hard". If I want to craft instead of kill stuff, by golly I'm going to craft.

Oh. The person I heard about the Mog King from loved the fight, they were ecstatic about it when they attempted it on the first day it was released and weren't complaining about the challenge.

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Originally Posted by AnthraxLam

Not sure if troll.

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http://static3.fjcdn.com/comments/No...dd68900015.png

The main story lines do not require hard mode dungeons and or primal fights. King Moggle Mog XII is not hard either and can literally be done in 2-3 tries with a complete new pickup group.