The Solo disease?

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Originally Posted by Bled

Don't insult me in thinking that i don't know what an elitist is... By creating a derogatory label such as Elitist you only further the very problem you are attempting to label (which has no relevance). Ever hear of the saying "treat a person like a animal long enough and he will become an animal", that is the most basic way of describing labeling theory. You are part of the problem so stop flinging these stupid labels around!

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I never said you didn't know what an elitist was...

And fine, I'll just simply say it as it is without a label. He is being stereotypical. He is assuming. He believes he is correct and everyone else is incorrect. Better now?

Edit: For the record I wasn't talking about anyone using the term 'soloist.' If anything I was just attempting to prevent negative association of that word with the characteristics he was using. Because soloist doesn't = bad. Elitist however does = the description I was attempting to use for the guy. Regardless if I say 'elitist' or if I say in detail what I felt the poster's thoughts were, it means the same thing. So biting my head off for my terminology doesn't change anything.

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I never said you didn't know what an elitist was...

And fine, I'll just simply say it as it is without a label. He is being stereotypical. He is assuming. He believes he is correct and everyone else is incorrect. Better now?

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retorting in elementary definitions of a term you know a person knows is text book insult but w/e.

And yeah that's better

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Originally Posted by NoMX

In my opinion it completely ruins the game for one person to be able to kill the roughest, toughest monster in the game that the lore describes as being a badass to the ultimate degree. It's a task for a group, and should never be allowed to be done solo. If you reeeeally want a solo MMO, go play runescape. Unless they changed it in the last couple of years, there is no such thing as partying in that game and you do everything alone, aside from trading. It's just a social single-player game. It sucks... but yea. That's the sort of game you're describing.

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Runescape introduced a skill last year to address that criticism called dungeoneering. The skill is soloable to some extent, but you gain allot more xp by grouping with others. The skill is pretty much like the standard raid, killing monsters in an instance with a boss at the end, but only lasts like 20-60 mins per dungeon depending on how well your group co-operates, so those with not much time will still benefit. Anything outside of that though is still solo friendly outside of mini-games like you said. There are bosses in the open world that require grouping if you're low in level, but most of them do become soloable by max level. This is pretty much info from when I stopped playing in October of 2010, so maybe new party-oriented things have been introduced since then.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

the one thing I never found to make any sense........ if you want to solo..... why in the heck are you playing an MMORPG....and dont give me that "single player RPGs dont hold up to MMORPGs) because I have a whole shelf full of games, spanning decades that will prove that wrong.

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Some people like to play solo but still feel part of community and chat within the guild or LS.

Crafters play solo do they not ?, so why should a battle class not be able to ?

Personally I prefer to party but I can see it from the perspective that sometimes its just nice to go out and do your own thing.

Something some one said today actual kind of clicked with me and i think its kind of relevant to this discussion. Mind you it was not expressly about soloing, but it was more geared towards Difficulty.

I am paraphrasing greatly here so stick with me.

"Ya know, I don't really have a problem with a game developer adding in a easy mode for people who cant deal with normal or harder difficulty setting. In fact i think its a good thing, It helps them learn the ropes and to become better players. there is also the benefit of every body no mater the skill level getting to see the content. The problem i have is when they take content and make it exceedingly easy for every one for the sake of players who are not able to hack the normal setting"

he later went on to say that rewards for said easy mode certainly should not be as large as normal or hard. But there's nothing wrong with a the game giving a easy mode player a pat on the head and a shove of encouragement to rise to the challenge of the harder difficulty settings.

TDJ
there is different forms of multiplayer in the aspect of different ganre(sp).
fps multiplayer isn't really about grouping but playing with other players. In the aspect of rpg though it is about grouping and working as a team.

Sure you can talk to ppl but still be anti-social in a game. Meaning you make friends but do not play with them. Which is a point to the mmo, make friends to play with. I have no issue with ppl who solo. So do not twist it. I just have an issue with people who joins linkshells and ONLY solos. they talk but do not take part in activities. It does make ppl appear snobby. Like if i'm talking to someone I want to do an activity with them. Like leveling or group crafting. (like some one makes arrow heads which i make into arrows etc) And if That person says "no i play solo" it can be taken as an insult. It is like why talk to me if you do not wish to play with me.

But more importently. You gotta understand the background of certain mmo before playing them.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Something some one said today actual kind of clicked with me and i think its kind of relevant to this discussion. Mind you it was not expressly about soloing, but it was more geared towards Difficulty.

I am paraphrasing greatly here so stick with me.

"Ya know, I don't really have a problem with a game developer adding in a easy mode for people who cant deal with normal or harder difficulty setting. In fact i think its a good thing, It helps them learn the ropes and to become better players. there is also the benefit of every body no mater the skill level getting to see the content. The problem i have is when they take content and make it exceedingly easy for every one for the sake of players who are not able to hack the normal setting"

he later went on to say that rewards for said easy mode certainly should not be as large as normal or hard. But there's nothing wrong with a the game giving a easy mode player a pat on the head and a shove of encouragement to rise to the challenge of the harder difficulty settings.

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Agreed.

WoW makes raid content easy so everyone can try it out and then adds the Heroic version for more capable players.

I'm sure if SE tried that here though half the community would implode saying it was wow cloning.

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Originally Posted by Griss

"Ya know, I don't really have a problem with a game developer adding in a easy mode for people who cant deal with normal or harder difficulty setting. In fact i think its a good thing, It helps them learn the ropes and to become better players. there is also the benefit of every body no mater the skill level getting to see the content. The problem i have is when they take content and make it exceedingly easy for every one for the sake of players who are not able to hack the normal setting"

he later went on to say that rewards for said easy mode certainly should not be as large as normal or hard. But there's nothing wrong with a the game giving a easy mode player a pat on the head and a shove of encouragement to rise to the challenge of the harder difficulty settings.

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This. I was reading through this thread thinking this, and here I am on page 13 seeing it!

I am totally OK with a solo player going through a dungeon and beating a boss on his own. BUT ONLY IF. he ticks the "im solo" box and gets reduced rewards. And i dont mean less rewards, i mean weaker rewards.

If the drop for a group of 8 is a Shiny helmet with 60 defense and a 16% chance to drop
The drop for a solo player should maybe only be 40 with a drop of 2%

Now, All solo content should be balanced to the fact the play may only have done previous dungeons solo, so he wont be at a disadvantage for not having done the group content previously. But it also means you cant solo your way up to max level and jump right into group play after taking the easy route, it will be tough.

The lower percentage drop is because of time taken. if a dungeon takes 1 hour and an 8 man party takes the group one, thats 8 player hours to get 1 item, they would need to do this a lot to get it for everyone. whereas the solo would only take 1 player hour. the game still needs to take the same time for everyone. cant give solo-ers an easy ride!

This way, the game is almost seperate for the solo players. but joined at the same time.
They spend the same grind as groupers. they get their own challenge, and they part of the same world.
And if they want to join in with groupers, they have to understand, the would is a little tougher, but rewarding for those that co-operate!

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I'm sorry that my term caused you to feel that you must post in retort, but when one person believes that the way they do things in a game, or how they feel about others in a game, is the right way and the only way, that feels pretty elitist to me.

He is saying that solo players are almost always bad at playing in groups.

How does he know this?

Has he played with most solo players in this game? Seriously doubtful considering they do not want to party with him or seemingly anyone. He is assuming.

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maybe not most solo players are, but i will say most solo only players that decided to group up with me for high level nm's and stuff with were.

I don't agree that solo player should take 8 times more hours than a full party.

That's some weird logic.

At the end of the day those 8 people only play for 1 hour each and that should be the same for a solo player, I do agree that the reward should be significantly lower in quality though.

Time is not a measure of difficultly and tbh it would probably be much harder for someone to solo a dungeon than an 8 man party due to nobody there to back you up.

Each situation would need to be balanced to the player/s as would the reward.

(ran out orf room)
take example of World of warcraft. It is an mmorpg based from their "popular" rts game Warcraft. (i only heard of dune and comand and conqur (sp) ) Obviousely the mmorpg would be about pvp. And even have all servers (normal rp or other wise) got most content in pvp style.
Much like Final Fantasy games have been about teamwork. Where heros group up and defeat a common enemy. Or much like crystal chronicals where you and three other players (local) could join up as a their character and go through the game as a team. (the solo style is actually hard since you just have a moogle and most puzzles are better with more then 1 person) Also some titles in final fantasy did have a multiplayer mode where if you plug in another controler player 2 can take control onver 1 character in the battles. I think it was ff9 that did this.

Should a player beable to choose to solo? sure idm options. Should a player join an mmo and ONLY solo, and never grouping. No.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

maybe not most solo players are, but i will say most solo only players that decided to group up with me for high level nm's and stuff with were.

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I had the same issues... people who solo duel box themselves tend to have poor hate management since they do not know solo and group needs different skill sets :P

Honestly you really need to be choosing when it comes to picking an mmo you can solo in. And understand that there is no such thing as a solo only mmo to expect to group sometimes for certain content or just not do that content. You guys make the choice in playing an mmo. You make the chpoice to solo. Do not cry to the devs after finding out you can't solo 100%

Holy shit Kilta said something I agree with :O

that is what i been saying this whole time XD I played over 30 mmo. and well over 100 games from the time i was 6 to now. I played various types of games also and know how each game type does things differently.

Also massive multiplayer << means a large group of players playing the game together (as a community) You never truely solo in an mmo. In some form or fashion someone else is aiding your adventure. Unless you are self sufficant and get money from npc and only npc.

I agree 100% with you TC.. I in fact am a solo player too.. that's just the way we are.. (:

I enjoy soloing. I do enjoy partying as well.
But I would say I spend 3 times the amount soloing than I do partying.

Here are my reasons why I solo mostly...

How many people want to join me FARMING materials I need to craft?
How many people want to adhere to my TIME SCHEDULE based on 15 mins here and 15 mins there?
How many people can I CRAFT with in a party?
How many people enjoy partying with someone who has to go AFK almost constantly because of LIFE?

Here are my reasons for partying... (when my time permits)

Joining up to do Battle Leve's
Grouping for Raptor Party's
R50 NM Battles

Can anyone else give me a better reason to party in XIV at the moment?
Can anyone honestly tell me other than HATE MANAGEMENT do they learn in group parties?

I support the game that supports all player types. I agree Parties should be #1 priority in the game, and just cause my time doesn't permit it a lot of the time, I would still prefer the game made MUCH HARDER!

To all you soloists out there, keep it up, and group up when you can, it can be fun.

Yea, I think this is the wrong game to be going with any of that "Soloers suck when they do try to party" stuff anyway. I'd say the soloer may be a lot better at knowing what his classes are capable of than someone who got to rank cap zerging max leve-links & behests. It's a free ride to level cap with minimal effort.

Leeloo the problem with a skilled soloer in a party is there use to the techniques they have developed while soloing. those more often then not do not mesh that well with party play. Case in point archers. A solo archer is use to front loading there attack buffs into there first hit then binding the target and repeating the process untill the mob is dead.

That causes a bit of a wrinkle when the same technique is used during party play. leading to what i call the Rambonehead syndrome.

Yea those same Archers who front load will learn fast in the new dungeons :P when they get one shot for pulling too much hate.

Or it will turn into a blame game where everyone will remain quiet and moody for the rest of the dungeon :P

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Originally Posted by Griss

Leeloo the problem with a skilled soloer in a party is there use to the techniques they have developed while soloing. those more often then not do not mesh that well with party play. Case in point archers. A solo archer is use to front loading there attack buffs into there first hit then binding the target and repeating the process untill the mob is dead.

That causes a bit of a wrinkle when the same technique is used during party play. leading to what i call the Rambonehead syndrome.

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Yeah I can see that. To me that steps beyond whether someone prefers solo or party play & into just good vs bad players. I think the good soloer would be thinking of how things will be a little different in a party setting. Test the waters a bit and then settle in. The bad one is going to ignore that stuff and "do their thing".

Similarly, not all people who love grouping and rarely solo are going to be good players by default either. They can easily be hitching that free ride to cap available in this game.

It's a case by case thing.

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Originally Posted by kurokawa

I....think....you need....to make....some friends......

That's what makes the world go round....

Try it, we won't bite.

Soling is great, but once you make some 'real' friends in game, you'll very rarely solo again.

I think soloists are just scared of groups. I used to be one.

Come here. .../hugs....

HUGS GODAMMIT

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There is some truth to this.
/hug

I'm going to add something that I've experienced going between FFXI, WoW, and now FFXIV.

While I also enjoy a good solo, I actually liked FFXI's methods of partying up to accomplish your goals. This is from whether it's exp/meriting to going through story missions. This was the way to bond with others and find friends or that right group of people you can continue to experience the game with.

I went to WoW because eventually my life couldn't handle the wait time it took to find a party to gain experience on plus the time you needed to party if you waited that long. Soloing also wasn't a very tempting option back when I quit. Now WoW has a great soloing feature, with the need to group up only if you desire the best gear. Two problems, no accomplishment going through story content and you don't feel connections to the players you may or may not run across. Guild invites were more along the lines of noobs spamming the invite in your face or you spam the chat channel in a city. Get in guild, won't feel that connection between anyone else right away.

FFXIV feels between FFXI and WoW right now, with a higher push towards WoW's community feel. You don't have to group for much of anything, and the soloing leaves you feeling isolated from everyone else eventually. Maybe you might find someone you enjoyed talking to during a Behest gathering, but otherwise I almost feel the same finding a linkshell here as I was getting in a guild in WoW. The only comfort I have currently is that a lot of FFXIV players are also former FFXI players, so they have a better understanding on communication and growing as a community.

So I understand the point of the MMO part of a MMORPG, but the solo utility is so high at the moment I'm having trouble connecting or even finding a good linkshell. The last linkshells I've been in have either, as I said before, talk dirty too often or not enough (last one had no one talk commonly unless someone was looking to put together a leve party and that was about it!).

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Crafters play solo do they not ?, so why should a battle class not be able to ?

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Oh, nice, I hadn't thought of that one!

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Originally Posted by NoMX

No, Jester... You're just missing the points I was trying to make.
[snip]
You were asking why people don't like soloers, basically...

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I think you missed the point as I never asked this question. In fact most of your post addresses points that...well...I never really asked or tried to make, and your argument about single player offline RPG parties translating into multiplayer online parties, while written well, doesn't translate like you think it does.

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I don't really have a problem with a game developer adding in a easy mode.

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Easy mode? No one here is talking about easy mode, and soloing is far from easy mode. Even in a properly scaled down scenario, soloing in my experiance is much more difficult than partying with a well rounded party. A lot of extra strategy and care must be taken, for example if you are a Warrior, who is going to heal you? How will you survive without being healed? What strategy will you use? If you are a White Mage, who is going to Tank or DPS? How will you manage to deal enough damage to the mob before he squishes you? Soloing is far from easy mode.

That being said, I am aware that some developers, instead of using proper scaling techniques, just dumb down content across the board, and this is an absolute no no. As a soloist, I despise dumbed down content (and often skip over it), I want a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

TDJ
Which is a point to the mmo, make friends to play with.

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The point of an MMO? Who made these rules? I didn't agree to them. Did we have some kind of global vote on what an MMO is supposed to be, or did you just form an opinion based on your own preferred game style and assume that this is the way things should be?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Like leveling or group crafting. (like some one makes arrow heads which i make into arrows etc) And if That person says "no i play solo" it can be taken as an insult.

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You, absolutely, misinterpret what playing solo is. Playing solo means that I do not party. That is it. Crafting, which I can do solo, which as pointed out by someone is a completely solo job, to provide LS or friends with materials or items, is still soloing. You can stretch the definition of solo to make soloists look as evil as you would like, but that doesn't change that soloists, in all my MMORPG experience, simply do not want to PvE in a party, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I don't agree that solo player should take 8 times more hours than a full party.

That's some weird logic.
[snip]
Each situation would need to be balanced to the player/s as would the reward.

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At least someone understands the concept of scaling and equal effort for equal reward! There is no reason why your 4 hours in a party, are any more valuable than my 4 hours solo. If I put in the same amount of effort (and not simply with some dumbed down easy mode, but a proper scaled environment) I should get the same reward.

@Leeloo
Oh I like you more and more.

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Originally Posted by Xandre

There is some truth to this.
/hug

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Actually, posts like the one you quoted are the problem, not the solution. Too many people, some who even "claim" to have been soloists, like to make the statement that all soloists really wish they were groupers. It is as bad as saying all Hispanics (or any other racial group) secretly wish they were White. It is a horrible, not to mention completely wrong, judgement that my original post was attempting to shed light on.

i like to play both solo and in parties too but i think it is no ones business how i play the game.

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Originally Posted by thedevilsjester

Actually, posts like the one you quoted are the problem, not the solution. Too many people, some who even "claim" to have been soloists, like to make the statement that all soloists really wish they were groupers. It is as bad as saying all Hispanics (or any other racial group) secretly wish they were White. It is a horrible, not to mention completely wrong, judgement that my original post was attempting to shed light on.

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I said "Some truth."

Certainly there are other factors to consider, but I do believe that if you did or were to make a friend(s), someone more than just a player you casually talk to from time to time, then you'd want to spend time with them.

Also, the comparison you made is not a viable example to support your argument due to its extremity.

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Originally Posted by Xandre

I said "Some truth."

Certainly there are other factors to consider, but I do believe that if you did or were to make a friend(s), someone more than just a player you casually talk to from time to time, then you'd want to spend time with them.

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By spend time with...you mean have your virtual avatar near their virtual avatar linked by a virtual party mechanic? How does that equate to spending time with them? Isn't talking to them, both in text chat and voice chat on a regular basis, more social then the virtual proximity of your avatars? Really, how is forming a party with them "spending time with them"? If it were real life, yes having them in close proximity is leagues different than chatting with them on the phone, but that character in game, isnt really you, and the proximity is virtual (you are not really closer to them then you are when you are solo halfway across "the world"). I would think that those who party, and don't talk, voice or text, are less social than those who solo and chat all day with their in game and out of game friends (XFire is pretty good for this). How does wanting to form a group mechanic automatically make you social, and not wanting to, automatically makes you anti-social?

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Originally Posted by Xandre

Also, the comparison you made is not a viable example to support your argument due to its extremity.

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I disagree. You feel, because it doesn't really affect you, that it is an extreme comparison. From my side, being in the group that is regularly attacked, it is quite a fair comparison. One large group, who expresses their supposed superiority, believes that another large group wants to secretly be like them. (I should note, for the record, that I am not including "all groupers" in this, just the ones who express said sentiment) It is a valid comparison. The only area that the comparison falls short in, is that race cannot change, where as behaviour can, but it is the closest comparison I could find without comparing religions, and that will just get messy and I am sure no one wants the topic to start degrading into that!

@Griss
Yes you are absolutely right that someone experienced in soloing only will (typically) not make as good a partier as someone who has partied most of the game. The opposite is true as well though. Someone who is used to the party mechanic, is not going to be as good solo as they are used to a certain type of mechanic where there is a healer role, a tank role, a DPS role, etc... and when they are in a situation where they have to be all of these, if they are not used to it (like a soloer to a group) they will fail just as hard (of course, a benefit of them soloing is they only bring themselves down, not the whole party). This is just the nature of experience. If you intend to play in parties, you should play in them early so you get to know your party role, and if you intend to do a lot of soloing, you should do so early so you can get a feel for playing your character in its new role (and in the case of FFXIV, probably get some new skills...since as a soloist, Cure is nice, but Sacrifice is useless, etc...)

I think you are complicating things.

I'm not a fan of typing large bodies of text so I'll just keep things short.

First off, no, I was not implying to be social you had to be standing right next to the other player.

Second, I understand the basic relationship of the comparison you made. That being said, you're bringing up issues of a larger scale that are going far beyond the original argument.

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Originally Posted by Xandre

First off, no, I was not implying to be social you had to be standing right next to the other player.

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Ok.

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Originally Posted by Xandre

Second, I understand the basic relationship of the comparison you made. That being said, you're bringing up issues of a larger scale that are going far beyond the original argument.

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There was no original argument, just my statement that all soloers do not secretly wish they were groupers. If you mean an argument brought up in one of the many replies, which one? I do not think the game needs changed, I do not think that all content should be soloable, I do not think the game should be made easier for soloists, but I do think that equal effort should provide equal reward (and that there are certain situations where you cannot scale down and still make the game make consistent sense). I do think you can be social, and not party, just like you can party and not be social. And I fully support systems that allow soloing but encourage grouping. Other than that, I just simply want people to know that for some of us, we are soloists and we are proud. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If you want to play a solo game, play an offline game.

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Originally Posted by FilthyDisco

If you want to play a solo game, play an offline game.

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I agree with you 100%, except the fact that even when your partying alone, you are NEVER playing solo.

Solo games are games which there is no economy, there are no player vendors, you don't sell materials to others, you are set on 1 path and that's it.

You are lucky that people who SOLO, can make your gear, repair your gear, and help you get materials.

FilthyDisco If I wanted to play alone I would play a rpg but since I want to be connected with people I play an mmo.

As it stands me and many like thedevilsjester would prefer to play alone and here are my reasons why I enjoy playing alone.

For one it allows me to play at my own pace instead of the pace of a group wanting to rush as fast as possible without care to each persons needs in real life.

Yet it should still be noted that like jester I enjoy talking to members in several of my LS and in the world at large through out the day everyday I am on playing solo(be it grinding away at crafting, or farming mobs for sp and items in the field).

While I will occasionally group up to get leves done on occasion I usually end up like my local leves doing them solo.

Partly because one, people in my LS's usually want a higher rank or a particular job in their group at reset.

That or other demands come into play even when its people outside of a LS at camps that will join up with me.

Not only is it time consuming but also people tend to be selfish in groups lazy and demanding to say the lease.

Doesn't help I have played many mmo's Final Fantasy XI included that make it a pain and very time consuming to get a group together,and to have very pushy people tell you where to go and how to play at time to make for a very jaded experience 9 time out of 10 for me at lease.

But go ahead and say we are all anti-social even though I Love talking to people in game, but due to time constraints and frustration a with past groups I usually avoid the headache of dealing with people group wise unless its behest or I have enough time to do a leve reset if time permits.

Otherwise I have nothing against groups per say except for horrible past experiences that drive me to want to play solo.

However when people come off as knowing what I want to how I should play in any game MMO or otherwise it irks me, I mean telling us how we should play or what we should play is pretty arrogant to say the lease.

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

I agree with you 100%, except the fact that even when your partying alone, you are NEVER playing solo.

Solo games are games which there is no economy, there are no player vendors, you don't sell materials to others, you are set on 1 path and that's it.

You are lucky that people who SOLO, can make your gear, repair your gear, and help you get materials.

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I do not quite know which side you are arguing for here! Your first line seems to be agreeing with the mindless comment posted by FilthyDisco which assumes that the only difference between an offline RPG and an MMORPG is the partying aspect (which if he had actually read some of the posts, he would see that this isnt even remotely the case), but then you go on to be a champion for the solo cause (and I just had to like the post for that!).

Soloists (again, when I use this term, I do not intend for it to be all encompassing) are not people who do not participate in the game world at all. They simply choose to solo PvE instead of partying. We still (using myself and friends and an example) craft, repair, sell items, and as you put it, generally be a part of the world and its economy. (I have occasionally joined a party simply because they needed my job and couldn't find anyone else, so as a nice, social creature, I choose to put aside my dislike for parties, and help out) This is no different than someone choosing not to Parley, or not to harvest or craft. Sure they are not experiencing every aspect the game has to offer, but for many, those aspects are not enjoyable, so its not much of a loss.

Do I think there are benefits to partying in games? ABSOLUTELY. Without a doubt partying has its advantages (as does soloing), I simply prefer the advantages to soloing over those of partying, as simple as that.

@Aketo Oh beautiful. You hit the nail on the head.

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Originally Posted by Aketo

However when people come off as knowing what I want to how I should play in any game MMO or otherwise it irks me, I mean telling us how we should play or what we should play is pretty arrogant to say the lease.

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It may get on your nerves and you may have the right to play however you want, but it doesn't change the fact that MMOs are socially driven games by design. Especially a Final Fantasy title. If there is solo content, it's for the players with little time to play, not players who prefer being alone. It goes against the nature of MMOs in general.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It may get on your nerves and you may have the right to play however you want, but it doesn't change the fact that MMOs are socially driven games by design. Especially a Final Fantasy title. If there is solo content, it's for the players with little time to play, not players who prefer being alone. It goes against the nature of MMOs in general.

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Really, how come we don't all know this then? Where's the rule book at?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It may get on your nerves and you may have the right to play however you want, but it doesn't change the fact that MMOs are socially driven games by design.

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Granted, of course. But you miss the point that socially driven does not mean party driven. These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

If there is solo content, it's for the players with little time to play, not players who prefer being alone. It goes against the nature of MMOs in general.

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Again with this mysterious "nature of an MMO". Your statement should read:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

"If there is solo content, it is my opinion that it's for the players with little time to play, not players who prefer being alone. It goes against my personally held belief about the nature of MMOs in general."

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The bold changes are very important distinctions.

There is no "official" nature of an MMO that states you must party.

Also, you make the assumption that soloers "prefer being alone" which is not the case. We prefer to tackle PvE content without participating in party mechanics, that is all.

@Asmeret Yes! I am sure I didn't see it in the EULA, I may have missed it though, they are so damn long... :)

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Originally Posted by Asmeret

Really, how come we don't all know this then? Where's the rule book at?

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All I'm saying is the best content is reserved for group play and that never changes and will never change for MMOs. You don't need a rule book to figure that out.

If soloing for the challenge is what gets you going. That is admirable and is something I like to accomplish and reach towards when I play MMOs as well. However, and I said this previously, group designed content soloed by players is based on skill, but also inspired by design flaws. Skill exploits, terrain exploits, and character builds. Which is most always the case. Content, especially in FFXIV's case to which I should say little content, is not designed to be soloable, but is through a loop hole in a combination of class, skill, and attribute exploitation.

If it were designed for both parties we would only have to rely on the skill of the player or players involved and not a design flaw.

FFXI and XIV sure are meant to play with others and it is much more fun.
But to be able to play some of the Content Alone is a good addition.

Party up can be fun but sometimes it can be much of a pain too, you just dont have the nerve to play always with people its just natural.

I personally like to do my Leves and just go off again because of certain reason...doesnt matter if its the time or i just dont know if i want to play with other at the Moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thedevilsjester

There is no "official" nature of an MMO that states you must party.

Also, you make the assumption that soloers "prefer being alone" which is not the case. We prefer to tackle PvE content without participating in party mechanics, that is all.

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Actually, it's not my opinion. There is a system that describes what I'm talking about. They are called "Guildleves". They were and are designed to be most effective in groups, but also are designed specifically to be completed for players who don't have much time to play. Which is their official description of them, not mine.

The difficulty bonus and leve linking bonus shows you that their intentions are that groups are superior. Which would make sense because not only is this a Final Fantasy installment, but it's also an MMO. MMOs? Highlighting group play? Whoa! Insane.

Edit: and I'm not talking about MMOs in general. I'm leaning towards FFXIV's case.

Just because SE makes it clear that groups are desirable to do leves at higher ranking and reward people more does not mean that soloers are not welcomed in this game.

I mean you make it seem like we should all group up all day everyday if that were the case then you might not be happy with how SE has handled crafting and gathering as a solo jobs

I mean how dare they, you know since your so driven to remind us the exact definition of Guild leves?, how about you go and tell Se how upset you are that crafting and gathering is not group oriented.