White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.

In all honestly your just trying to validate your point of beeing lazy we get it now

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Noted so girls arn't allowed to wear a skirt, it's too risky since it's easier for them to get abused

Noted

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If you misunderstand a girl wearing a skirt, then there truly is no hope for you.

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Originally Posted by Whippet

In all honestly your just trying to validate your point of beeing lazy we get it now

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Lazy comment's again? I thought we stomped that out already.

The only time I like when the healers dps is when they don't let me drop to 100 hp, literally, every pull, trash mobs or not. There are so many healers that I see now focus primarily on dpsing that they forget they are actually a healing class.

Don't forget that we Paladins have a skilled called Spirits Within that needs high hp to do more damage and more damage provides more threat.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Assuming you're serious, you can (and should) control pet while casting so there's no reason to have to do one or the other. You do both.

It's gotten to the point where I make my fairy dodge with me on Demon Wall with Place. Just because.

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SCH doesnt like White Mage, put regen on and can leave it be for 20sec. In order to get pet to heal, u need to lock on tank at all time...Cant DPS like that without macro~

Not everyone like or know how to use macro, just so u know~

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

SCH doesnt like White Mage, put regen on and can leave it be for 20sec. In order to get pet to heal, u need to lock on tank at all time...Cant DPS like that without macro~

Not everyone like or know how to use macro, just so u know~

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What?





No really




What?

Someone doesn't know a single thing about SCH, lol.

The fact that dungeons are controlled by the duty finder, I wanna over-rule this thread. Whm should stick to healing and nothing more than healing. Play your role.
Just give thanks to the DEVs on creating this new system how all parties now are ROLE specific and sooner or later dungeons wont let you in unless you ilevel specific.

It's a MMORPG with new rules, new rule made by the collaboration of both DEV and community. WHMs who want to DD/Dps should stick to soloing.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

The fact that dungeons are controlled by the duty finder, I wanna over-rule this thread. Whm should stick to healing and nothing more than healing. Play your role.
Just give thanks to the DEVs on creating this new system how all parties now are ROLE specific and sooner or later dungeons wont let you in unless you ilevel specific.

It's a MMORPG with new rules, new rule made by the collaboration of both DEV and community. WHMs who want to DD/Dps should stick to soloing.

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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/32812552.jpg

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

The fact that dungeons are controlled by the duty finder, I wanna over-rule this thread. Whm should stick to healing and nothing more than healing. Play your role.
Just give thanks to the DEVs on creating this new system how all parties now are ROLE specific and sooner or later dungeons wont let you in unless you ilevel specific.

It's a MMORPG with new rules, new rule made by the collaboration of both DEV and community. WHMs who want to DD/Dps should stick to soloing.

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Bard is a singer, know your role keep song 100% of time, bring Ethers w/e just keep your song up!

Look everyone, Square has a very clear manner of defining your party role - it is your limit break - which can only be used in a party.

Since my LIMIT BREAK is a healing action, I will heal and you just need to deal with that.

Signed,

Bard

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Originally Posted by Raineer

Look everyone, Square has a very clear manner of defining your party role - it is your limit break - which can only be used in a party.

Since my LIMIT BREAK is a healing action, I will heal and you just need to deal with that.

Signed,

Bard

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before the Bard I was like what...?
Take my Like.

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Noted so girls arn't allowed to wear a skirt, it's too risky since it's easier for them to get abused

Noted

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Please, -please- don't go there in this thread. Seriously...

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Originally Posted by Zanika

Not just another pretty face..

If you can't compaire Stoneskin's function with Cure, why would Regen be any different?

I see Divine Seal as a comeback spell (as in after Garuda takes half of everyones health in 1 hit), and I sure I'm not the only one. Besides, if I saw a WHM pop Divine Seal every chance they had, I'd wonder if they could heal effectively without it. That's exactly what it would imply.
Spamming it also lowers the chances of haveing it available when you actually need it. I shouldn't even have to say that, but I know I'd be forced to later if I don't.

I'll also take this moment to note an observation. Almost everyone here is focusing purely on lvl 50 players with a glvl of 60+, when the thread affects everyone over lvl 30.

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You really don't seem to understand anything I said... Stoneskin costs twice as much MP and 50% more time to do something a Cure 1 would do on average, why would I ever use SS in this situation? Please tell me.

And using Divine seal + regen every pull is not about "not being able to heal without it" (lol) but about creating time for you to dps. With that heal rolling you can dps all you want without a care in the world. This IS situational barring gear levels and whether you know the tank/dps, but when you CAN do it you SHOULD do it.

Divine seal is not an "Oh shit" button especially in dungeons that I far outgear, I'll use it on cooldown because its efficient, not because I "need" it. Its got a 1 minute cooldown ffs, USE IT. Obviously on a HM primal fight you save it for the right time but that's not what we are talking about..

I'm pretty sure that the advantage of Stoneskin is Effective Health and it's a "heal" with absolutely no chance of overhealing.

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Originally Posted by Varok899

You really don't seem to understand anything I said... Stoneskin costs twice as much MP and 50% more time to do something a Cure 1 would do on average, why would I ever use SS in this situation? Please tell me.

And using Divine seal + regen every pull is not about "not being able to heal without it" (lol) but about creating time for you to dps. With that heal rolling you can dps all you want without a care in the world. This IS situational barring gear levels and whether you know the tank/dps, but when you CAN do it you SHOULD do it.

Divine seal is not an "Oh shit" button especially in dungeons that I far outgear, I'll use it on cooldown because its efficient, not because I "need" it. Its got a 1 minute cooldown ffs, USE IT. Obviously on a HM primal fight you save it for the right time but that's not what we are talking about..

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I don't understand? Neither do you! Stop compairing a barrier spell with a healing spell! It's not supposed to heal people, it's supposed to slow down the enemy's damage output. Just like protect (also a barrier spell). Cure may heal close to 18% of someones HP (if you're overgeared), but if a mob of three or more hit that one target once each, you're almost right back where you started. The key word there is ALMOST. That's where Stoneskin would've been a better choice.

You want a good way to "make time to dps?" There you go. Invest! Spend 1 extra second and gain 3 more. And about the cost? I said it before, it cost the same as Cure II. Do you forsake that spell too? Better yet, how about the Overcure + Cure III combo? Is that not worth the cost as well? Or would you even be able to afford it after spaming Stone II? I got no problems since I try to save MP.
*So you're spending more MP to save it? Great..* Again, Invest! Stoneskin + Cure is less time/MP consuming than Cure + Stone II + Cure. Btw, dosen't Stone II cost more than Cure as well?

And as for Divine Seal.. No one ever said it was a last resort. You're putting words into peoples mouths! I said it was a comeback spell. That could be after any major aoe that won't be a problem to heal normally, but would take too much time to do so. Almost every boss after lvl 35 has one attack like that, and more often than not, once they start, they use it again sometime after one minute has passed. The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs.

I'm not nocking on Divine Seal + Regen. I do that too. Only I use the time to strenghen my party's defences and restore MP instead of Stone II spam. Like I said once much earlier, it's a good alternative to dps.

Since I think you have a point, please explain it for me and for others better I don't understand it as of now.

We are still on farmed content right?

Short summary of what I do:
Tank runs in with stoneskin, I pop divine seal -> wait for initial initial hate gain (most of the time flash), tank gets regen, I'm on the GCD -> time to activate cleric stance, time to DPS

-> if the mobs are not dead by the point regen wears of: toggle cleric stance off, Cure II, regen, toggle cleric stance on -> DPS

-> last mob on the brink of death: stoneskin, toggle cleric stance off, start at top.

Where am I supposed to use stoneskin?

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Originally Posted by Merlee

Since I think you have a point, please explain it for me and for others better I don't understand it as of now.

We are still on farmed content right?

Short summary of what I do:
Tank runs in with stoneskin, I pop divine seal -> wait for initial initial hate gain (most of the time flash), tank gets regen, I'm on the GCD -> time to activate cleric stance, time to DPS

-> if the mobs are not dead by the point regen wears of: toggle cleric stance off, Cure II, regen, toggle cleric stance on -> DPS

-> last mob on the brink of death: stoneskin, toggle cleric stance off, start at top.

Where am I supposed to use stoneskin?

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Most tanks oppreate better under lower stress. Divine Seal + Regen at the start could overheal and take aggro back if the tank has lag. Also, while Divine Seal + Regen almost guarentes 100% health when used so early, the same can't be said for a normal Regen. To me, that can actually be misleading, and if noticed, the tank will wonder if the sudden change is somehow his fault.

Instead, renew Stoneskin after it breaks (usually 4-7 hits in mobs and every 4 hits with bosses) and follow up with Regen (if the tanks HP drops to 80%). From there just rinse and repeat.
It may seem like it costs more MP at first, but it'll reduce overhealing, allow more time to do whatever you want, give Regen a head start, and as the mob numbers begin dwindle, you won't have to use either spell as often. And since his health is just going up, instead of bouncing around everywhere (I've tanked under such conditions. It's unsetleing), It'll help reduce the tanks stress level.

There is a catch though. If Stoneskin only lasts 2 hits, the tank may be undergeared and renewing it would be a waste of time and MP. That's when Divine Seal + Regen would be the prefered method.

so.. now we are thinking "healing" is not worth enough and give an extra job to healer ... and even call them lazy or worthless or needless while we cant do anything without them (even they are not DPSing if they are good at healing its enough for me) .. as a Tank (i got both tank and healer class) i prefer them to good at healing i dont care about their DPS and i dont mind if they standing still as long as they good at healing .. as a healer i dont use cleric stance while in party ... but yeah i throw aero,bio, even thunder sometimes but its not my priority (why it should ?) ...

Because dead enemies faster = less healing.
Because time spent standing around is time you could have spent doing a Cleric nuke.
Because a healer with 400 MND vs a BLM/SMN with 400 INT is actually 10% better per hit (generally) at actually dealing damage, because of Cleric.

Take your pick.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Because dead enemies faster = less healing.
Because time spent standing around is time you could have spent doing a Cleric nuke.
Because a healer with 400 MND vs a BLM/SMN with 400 INT is actually 10% better per hit (generally) at actually dealing damage, because of Cleric.

Take your pick.

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less healing yea .. but you still using your mana so whats the different between using your mana on mob or player ?
i dont mind about time as long as we can make it ...i hate speed runs too :) , i like being safe rather then risky, being wiped cause of healer's thirst of DPS is much worse for me ... i can understand you too, but people have to admit that everyone has own way to play games you cant really expect me to do DPS if im good at healing if im keeping you and all party alive if everything is going perfect , what ? you really need more ?... as a Tank nope i dont really ask more.. just dont risk team thats all my expectation from a healer ...

When you've done something a billion times you should have a good feel of what's risky and what isn't. If you or anyone doesn't care enough to do that you're either lazy or fine with being not optimal. Which some people are, and that's their business.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

When you've done something a billion times you should have a good feel of what's risky and what isn't. If you or anyone doesn't care enough to do that you're either lazy or fine with being not optimal. Which some people are, and that's their business.

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what about the people who haven't done something billion times ... dont get me wrong im not saying the people saying that healer should DPS is wrong but you cant really expect that from everyone and you cant blame them for not doing DPS if he/she is keeping you alive for good ... its their choice to do DPS or not todo DPS , im fine with that if they are keeping me alive both of them is fine with me ... but like i said if im dead cause of their DPS then im pissed for good.

Yes, what about them indeed?

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

People who are ready to step up their game will take this advice under advisement or are already doing it. People who are not ready should know they are not ready, due to lack of experience or actual results causing performance issues. Acting like the issue has to come to a consensus when it is in fact just a "are you ready for this or not" check is pretty silly.

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Originally Posted by Halc

what about the people who haven't done something billion times ... dont get me wrong im not saying the people saying that healer should DPS is wrong but you cant really expect that from everyone and you cant blame them for not doing DPS if he/she is keeping you alive for good ... its their choice to do DPS or not todo DPS , im fine with that if they are keeping me alive both of them is fine with me ... but like i said if im dead cause of their DPS then im pissed for good.

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Everyone starts somewhere. People who refuse to try new things are just Beeing desd weight. A jack of all trade will always be more useful. I'm not saying to nuke when tank got 200hp but when the situation applies, example have 2 mobs and tank have full hp. Helping the party in all possible way is how productivity is made.

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Everyone starts somewhere. People who refuse to try new things are just Beeing desd weight. A jack of all trade will always be more useful. I'm not saying to nuke when tank got 200hp but when the situation applies, example have 2 mobs and tank have full hp. Helping the party in all possible way is how productivity is made.

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im not saying that they should stand still .. im just saying that everyone has their own way to play and as long as they do theirjob as a healer you cant call them useless or needless, sometime im just joining a party after playing DD class and i want to try something other then that DPSing (but even so im doing DPS when im available.. but you cant expect that everytime) .. the thing i want to say is ; you cant expect from a healing class to DPS ... im not saying he/she cant DPS it depends on the healer...
the question is ; does healer have to heal ? ...Yes , does healer have to DPS ? ... if he/she wants to you cant force him/her or you cant blame him/her..
its not even about being ready for that .. so what if i got high ilvl item? even then it doesnt mean i have to dance between stances to deal damage ... but yes i have to keep team alive and i completly take all the blame if you die cause "i cant heal properly" .. but blaming me for not doing DPS ?

You do not play a MMO for yourself, if you wanna be selfish and don't wanna 'Expand' your capabilities go play solo game

By not DPSing a WHM can easily make a run take 5more min at least

5 doesn't seem alot but if yo uido more runs 5 + 5 +5 adds up

People need to stop thinking they play ONLY for them because they are playing

It's a MMO you play with 7 other people, and i'm sure the 7 other would like to do more things in the same time frame period

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Originally Posted by Whippet

You do not play a MMO for yourself, if you wanna be selfish and don't wanna 'Expand' your capabilities go play solo game

By not DPSing a WHM can easily make a run take 5more min at least

5 doesn't seem alot but if yo uido more runs 5 + 5 +5 adds up

People need to stop thinking they play ONLY for them because they are playing

It's a MMO you play with 7 other people, and i'm sure the 7 other would like to do more things in the same time frame period

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I assume you are one of those idiots that don't wait for people skipping cutscenes on PS3 in CM or Prae, just because you want to save that minute you waste having a peaceful run.
You are playing with 7 people, not for yourself, it's what you said. But from what you say, you're expecting others to play for you. If you can't adapt to other players, you're crap. Don't expect others to do what you want, just try to get to the end in the best way.
Baka :3

Another one that adapt a message to please himself and find a way to insult others

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Another one that adapt a message to please himself and find a way to insult others

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Yep, I'm a cretin: deal with it :3

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Another one that adapt a message to please himself and find a way to insult others

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Ignore YanDere. I think he/she has a long history of being less than helpful and wrong/misleading about many things. This one is no different. The two of us haven't seen eye-to-eye in quite some time.

If you can't DPS as a healer in dungeons you are not a good healer. As a SCH, I spend more time DPS'ing than healing in AK. I imagine a WHM can figure out a strategy to do similar things.

The only time I pure heal is in Coil, because that place drops literal buckets of damage.

As SCH I never cast cure, I do Rouse on my fairy and Leeches on boss that's all rest of the time I nuke, never had a death

I did an AK as PLD today (my PLD is gimped) and WHM was able to holy spam and nuke spam while beeing in Cleric, and i was never close to death

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Originally Posted by Whippet

As SCH I never cast cure, I do Rouse on my fairy and Leeches on boss that's all rest of the time I nuke, never had a death

I did an AK as PLD today (my PLD is gimped) and WHM was able to holy spam and nuke spam while beeing in Cleric, and i was never close to death

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Yeah....it's not supposed to hard. There's nothing wrong with switching in/out of Cleric stance. I usually have my tank aggressively pull 2 sets mobs at once. I suggest WHMs do the same thing if they can mitigate the damage. Both healers scale well with AoE as do all DPS. You should always be a hog when pulling mobs.

It's the healer's job to prevent that hog from getting slaughtered.

I'll stay in Cleric Stance and use one Lustrate stack, it's even easier for WHM due to traited Stoneskin. Hint - neither Lustrate or SS is adversely effected by CS.

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Originally Posted by Tzain

So, I've never really tried playing with Cleric stance dancing in a group (most of my gear while leveling had heavy int and mind on the same piece so the difference was not huge when reversed).

My first instinct after reading your post was to think "How can I macro-manage the stance dance" and since im more partial to Aero DOT stacking than Stone DD I figured I'd go with this.

/ac "cleric stance" <me>
/wait 1
/ac "aero II" <tt>
/wait 3 (I don't know how long the waits going to have to be to not clip the aero II since im not at home but I'm sure I'm going to need it.)
/ac "aero I" <tt>
/wait 1 or 3 (Depends on whether Cleric Stance can be used after Aero I insta-cast)
/ac "cleric stance" <me>

Does this have any glaring errors to any ones eyeballs?

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Fixed it for ya. ;)

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Originally Posted by Zanika

I don't understand? Neither do you! Stop compairing a barrier spell with a healing spell! It's not supposed to heal people, it's supposed to slow down the enemy's damage output. Just like protect (also a barrier spell). Cure may heal close to 18% of someones HP (if you're overgeared), but if a mob of three or more hit that one target once each, you're almost right back where you started. The key word there is ALMOST. That's where Stoneskin would've been a better choice.

This doesn't make any sense, HOW is SS a better choice in that situation? It costs more and takes longer to cast to do the job of 1 cure. You still don't get it..

You want a good way to "make time to dps?" There you go. Invest! Spend 1 extra second and gain 3 more. And about the cost? I said it before, it cost the same as Cure II. Do you forsake that spell too? Better yet, how about the Overcure + Cure III combo? Is that not worth the cost as well? Or would you even be able to afford it after spaming Stone II? I got no problems since I try to save MP.
*So you're spending more MP to save it? Great..* Again, Invest! Stoneskin + Cure is less time/MP consuming than Cure + Stone II + Cure. Btw, dosen't Stone II cost more than Cure as well?

Again WHY would I waste time using SS when I can dps and keep him alive just as easy with a Cure or regen tick. Casting SS Is not making time to DPS, it's losing time to DPS

And as for Divine Seal.. No one ever said it was a last resort. You're putting words into peoples mouths! I said it was a comeback spell. That could be after any major aoe that won't be a problem to heal normally, but would take too much time to do so. Almost every boss after lvl 35 has one attack like that, and more often than not, once they start, they use it again sometime after one minute has passed. The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs.

And again.. Im talking about TRASH pulls, NOT a boss fight, divine seal is up every trash pull and using it with a regen will keep a semi geared tank healed for a whole trash pack, there is no place for SS in the middle of a trash pull

I'm not nocking on Divine Seal + Regen. I do that too. Only I use the time to strenghen my party's defences and restore MP instead of Stone II spam. Like I said once much earlier, it's a good alternative to dps.

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I think Im done with you, just continue being average, casting SS and making your runs last longer, you obviously don't see how to be efficient.

Everyone knows a healer can dps and there are too many threads that argue both sides. One being yes to dps the other being you should only heal. In my opinion, ultimately its the healers decision to dps or not. If you prefer a heals to dps then make friends with one or vice versa. As for me, I sometimes dps...I sometimes hit my heal macro and walk away from the keyboard or alt tab etc. Why?!?!? cuz sometimes I just wanna be lazy. And at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter....everyone gets their myth/philo and goes about their separate ways.

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Originally Posted by Masta

Everyone knows a healer can dps and there are too many threads that argue both sides. One being yes to dps the other being you should only heal.

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Is there a middle ground for Whm? I don't want to screw up my main role as a healer, so I just stay in the healer stance, and DPS when I'm comfortable things are under control... Is this the best of both worlds, or a lose-lose compromise?

(failed on my quoted reply but this is in response to simaril ^^)
Oh of course, the middle ground is whatever your comfortable doing. Sometimes you get hazed for it, I once had a tank say he main's a healer and that I should take his advice and only focus on healing, of course I said thanks and continued to dps. He eventually raged and like 3 weeks later saw me in /shout and was like oh HI its masta, that terribly bad healer! Other times you must dps if you wanna do sub 10 minute WP runs. As a healer your true role "in my humble opinion" is to increase your parties effectiveness. The major way you do that is by yes healing, but you also have other tools in your kit for utility and for dps. So to became a great healer you learn how to effectively use all your tools for the greater good of the party. Which in my opinion creates a well rounded and balanced individual who can create synergy regardless of party.

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Originally Posted by Varok899

I think Im done with you, just continue being average, casting SS and making your runs last longer, you obviously don't see how to be efficient.

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I look foward to seeing your preformance when the end-game content is released...

*This doesn't make any sense, HOW is SS a better choice in that situation? It costs more and takes longer to cast to do the job of 1 cure. You still don't get it..*
Then take my last sentence, put it before the scenario, and change "That's" for "This is." Stoneskin + Regen would have made a much more solid recovery than Regen + Cure. If you were half the healer you claim to be, you would've figured that out on your own.

*Again WHY would I waste time using SS when I can dps and keep him alive just as easy with a Cure or regen tick. Casting SS Is not making time to DPS, it's losing time to DPS*
How far did you read that before spouting off? Did you even get to the 'Invest' part?

*And again.. Im talking about TRASH pulls, NOT a boss fight, divine seal is up every trash pull and using it with a regen will keep a semi geared tank healed for a whole trash pack, there is no place for SS in the middle of a trash pull*
Since when were bosses the only ones with major aoe's? I only used the boss as an example. And again, you didn't read the full statement before commenting.
Remember the part where I said. "The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs."

Also since you chose to comment on this post instead of the one I made after (your selective reading not withstanding), I believe my description was valid even in your eyes. So that's that.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

Bullshit didn't read.

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Lol any potent WHM knows that they can Nuke almost all turn 1 (exept Cadeus and you can even nuke him a bit) as WHM or SCH i can nuke almost all turn 2 (even on ADS) and SCH or WHM should nuke the dreadnaught in turn 4

I agree this is not end game yet but there is always a way to expant your capabilities

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Originally Posted by Whippet

Lol any potent WHM knows that they can Nuke almost all turn 1 (exept Cadeus and you can even nuke him a bit) as WHM or SCH i can nuke almost all turn 2 (even on ADS) and SCH or WHM should nuke the dreadnaught in turn 4

I agree this is not end game yet but there is always a way to expant your capabilities

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You didn't read, so your argument is invalid. But just for amusement, what does this have to do with my post anyway?