"LFM Titan HM full DL" -.-

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

BZZZZZT WRONG.

1. If DPS is stupid and frontloads, your tank is screwed. Give your tank a single rotation at least. THEN you're gold.
2. If your white mage frontloads, your tank is also screwed. Overhealing (healing while at full HP) causes aggro. This includes heals over time. Any tank who has tried to pull a mob, or boss, just as the white mage casts Medica II knows EXACTLY what this is like. It is horrible, and it is almost impossible to recover from that aggro yank until the Medica II expires even with Provoke.

So yes, it is possible that a BAD GROUP, or at least one bad person, can cause your tank to lose aggro on Titan, or any other mob or boss for that matter. Contrary to popular belief tanks do not have a button they can press to generate infinite aggro.

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I wasnt aware we were talking about the "pull", what sort of idiot would go all out from the beggining?

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Originally Posted by YanDere

Really, I've had enough of those noobs.
People said to me that I needed full DL to beat Titan when I had beaten Garuda HM while having a single DL piece, a CNJ wand lv49, the Healer's Robe lv50 and all the rest below lv45, earrings and choker lv28.
With this gear I KO'd Garuda HM without Mage's Ballad, without going under 90% MP while raising 5 times THE OTHER WHM.
It happened because the party was good.
I admit that Titan is more difficult, but it still doesn't need full DL gear.
But still I haven't got my chunk of hyperfused ore because nobody is capable of beating him, the other whm/sch dies dds don't deal enough damage, the tank doesn't aggro well...
I wish I could find someone good in that crazy Navel.

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I think you are confusing 90% mp with 10% mp because raising 5 times over the course of a 6-8 minute fight is going to take more than 10% your the crappy mp pool you have with that gear. No ballad and apparently you solo healed too... LOL

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Originally Posted by YanDere

And, talking of aggro, it's not this much to get some aggro from a boss: you have plenty of skills to get your enmity up, I can half mine, the rest is up to you: you have one only thing to do, do it well.
Just the same as me, I have lots of healing skills so I heal well. You have aggro skills, aggro well.

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People ask for full DL due to the stomps in the last phase. When you are taking 8+ stomps (normally happens in pugs for sure) then you need the 3100+hp to survive the unavoidable damage. Other then that you don't "need" full DL.

As to this quote, you apparently don't know the many many issues with whm threat now do you? 1 Medica II cast will take a tank 30 seconds to equal the emnity you did. So yes any WHM can so very easily pull threat on any mob. I'll even break it down for you.

Medica II Initial emnity - .8 x (heal amount per person) = Immediate Emnity ... this means if that Medica II hits each person for 500 thats 500x8=4000. 4000 x .8 = 3200 eminty
Medica II HoT - 1 emnity per point healed ... 175/tick/person = 1400 emnity/tick over 12 seconds
All together over 12 seconds - 8800 emnity in 12 seconds

PLD's over 7.5 seconds generate roughly 2000 emnity with relic and full DL ...

WHM threat is broken

Medica II Initial emnity - .8 x (heal amount per person) = Immediate Emnity ... this means if that Medica II hits each person for 500 thats 500x8=4000. 4000 x .8 = 3200 eminty
Medica II HoT - 1 emnity per point healed ... 175/tick/person = 1400 emnity/tick over 12 seconds
All together over 12 seconds - 8800 emnity in 12 seconds

PLD's over 7.5 seconds generate roughly 2000 emnity with relic and full DL ...

WHM threat is broken[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by Rhained

Any tank who fails to hold titans aggro is officially a terrible player.

Tank has an extremely easy job on titan... patheticly so.

And yes TC, gear isnt a huge factor in the fight, competent people who can dodge all his stuff (almost everything he does is avoidable) is whats required.

Fortunately ive never had this problem as i dont pug him, you should find a good FC.

PS - sick of tanks acting like they have the hard job, I have a 50 paladin and its a mind numblingly easy class to play until atleast turn 2 of coils.

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Pretty sure this was a thread about PUG groups. That being sad it is pretty common to see bad whm's spamming medica II in this fight as most dps fail to get out of stuff. So yea um see above. Healers can pull threat off tanks in no time. Just because you run monk and never have to worry about it due to being bottom of the dps ladder doesn't mean that it's not a common issue

Double post. Delete please

Like it was pointed out, a bad White Mage can very very easily make your tank feel like a chump. And that's anytime in the fight.

So just because your tank can't hold it doesn't mean it's necessarily the tank's fault. DPS has to watch itself, and healers have to not be retards.

This is a team game.

While it's true individual player mistakes can be costly for the entire team (missing a silence, never dodging bad stuff, etc), TANKING is and always will be a team effort. It requires:

1. The tank doing his job.
2. DPS watching their aggro.
3. Healers not overdoing it.

One thing goes wrong in the three and the tank loses aggro, it's that simple.

Whoa, only one day and 20+ answers... I feel a little flamed XD
Today I did Titan HM on DF (Lodestone isn't updated since I have all lv50+ but two accessories lv48 and 49), I got to the last phase but we lost...
Now, I don't need DL because Iàm not getting in aoes. I didn't even know how much damage did his aoes deal. I got once in Weight of the Land because i was raising the other White Mage, but other than that, I got hit only by unavoidable blows.
Talking about aggro, I know exactly how to minimize enmity: I never use Regen, I use Medica II once and only after the big jumping attack and I don't overheal. I'm not that stupid.
And don't think DL means "good player": I saw awful players even with relic+1 and full DL, getting in every single aoe.

Obviously when you get all the aoes and you die in two blows, there's nothing better than blaming healers.
After 15 minutes we didn't deal 1/4 HP to Titan, I said "damage is too little" and a dps and the other whm started flaming on me because I "didn't heal well", when I was healing perfectly from the tank to the pets all saving the more MP I could.
Garuda HM isn't a 6-7 minutes fight, you have the time to recover from a Raise if you know how to heal properly. And with "not getting under 90% MP", thought it was obvious, meant "never keeping MPs lower than 90% for too long", I always had nearly all my MP when needed, because the tank was aggroing well, the dps were dealing great damage and keeping Suparna and Chirada far from healers.
I think I'll really have to get DL gear to get in a party, because DF people can't even avoid an aoe or deal damage. And these two are the real issues.
Sorry if I couldn't answer to all of you ;)

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Double post. Delete please

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Monk isnt bottom dps, so clearly you know nothing.

I also have a lvl 50 paladin.

Ill also give you that white mage can pull aggro, dps never should unless they were idiots during pull. And white mages should only pull aggro on the rare occasions the full party is so bad at dodging stuff that they have to spam medica.

Dosnt change the fact paladin is likely the easiest job before turn 2 of coils. Especially on titan fight where they can ignore the majority of the fights mechanics.

But yea if you blame white mages taking aggro because everyone else sucks, thats not a tanking issue thats an everyone being shit issue. I ment if the fights actually going as it should rather than people failing to dodge. Im pretty sure only idiots would blame a tank for losing aggro when a white mage basically is having to spam heals to sustain noobs.

I would suggest everyone stop using duty finder on the occasions where a atleast, capable team is required. Weve had plenty of mmorpgs in the past where duty finder didnt exist, and now lots of people act like its a crutch and they cant play without it.

If you dont have a FC willing to help you, the best thing you can do is make parties on server and go into titan with them. Note down who plays their classes well and make friends with them. Then proceed to get rid of the bad players and fill out the spaces with more good players.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Pretty sure this was a thread about PUG groups. That being sad it is pretty common to see bad whm's spamming medica II in this fight as most dps fail to get out of stuff. So yea um see above. Healers can pull threat off tanks in no time. Just because you run monk and never have to worry about it due to being bottom of the dps ladder doesn't mean that it's not a common issue

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Quite frequently I am 2nd or 3rd on threat as monk, especially in coil where long disconnects are fairly limited. Monks also aren't bottom of the dps ladder, other than that your post is correct regarding WHM threat.

I don't want to jump on the hate train, but Titan HM is a lot of damage, lacking the beneficial tools from subclasses (surecast, swiftcast, eye for an eye) and not having close to the suggested 3.2k health is just asking to be carried.

Things get harder for a reason and you need to prepare yourself. Now I don't think that it is right to demand people have max gear to do something, but people need to show that they're trying. Even if it means I have to change attributes to get the minimum health for titan, I will for my teams sake. This isn't a solo game, take care of gearing yourself for the sake of others and stop being so selfish.