Just remaster XI with XIVs Engine please

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Originally Posted by Elissar

naaa, XIV engine sucks more than XI.

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The big truth. Probably the real reason why they added more weeks to the patch cycle in the first place. You can create usable spaghetti in 2 years, but untangling that spaghetti will be a near endless endeavor + having to work on new content. That is if the new content will be compatible with existing code and if not well... back to tearing it down and pray what you just tore down didn't have any dependencies because if it does... time to rewrite the dependencies too. But what if the dependencies had dependencies of the dependencies? It goes on forever.

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Originally Posted by ExESGO

The big truth. Probably the real reason why they added more weeks to the patch cycle in the first place. You can create usable spaghetti in 2 years, but untangling that spaghetti will be a near endless endeavor + having to work on new content. That is if the new content will be compatible with existing code and if not well... back to tearing it down and pray what you just tore down didn't have any dependencies because if it does... time to rewrite the dependencies too. But what if the dependencies had dependencies of the dependencies? It goes on forever.

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Exactly.
Thanks for sharing your ideas.

Basically...you can carry a body for some time but you can't carry it forever. It's almost a miracle that XIV were able to end Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc. In Yoshida place, i would be taking notes from the market to plan my next big MMO since sometime between Stormblood and Shadowbringers.

They increased dev time to avoid excessive crush. In patch notes we only know half of the truth.

I am not saying they are dumb, lazy or anything like that. They did all they could. Move on.

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Originally Posted by Ephremjlm

Yeah I guess it depends. Im playing Rdm and on a classic server with graphics mods and then I pay for FFXI sub to support, thats what does it for me. The ultra HD packs make the world feel fresh but again the polygon count is what trips me up lol. I know im probably considered a boomer for this but I love the combat. I like the fact that you need to communicate in the game. The problem with FFXIV's combat is there is basically no communication, and its just a memorized set of dodge and stack mechanics, with rotations.

If there was ever an update, I would want them to go the blue mage route. Id be curious to see what the populations true reaction would be after playing.

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No I agree, the slow combat needs to stay 100%. The thing is, I want spells to be intricate in execution and beautiful to look at, and I want to see my character attack and have time to APPRECIATE what is actually going on. in XIV combat is so fast all I see is a ball of light and managing the hud and whatever I can glimpse the boss is doing to dodge the mechanic, and honestly, I don't remember the last time I actually had a chance to look and appreciate what my character was even doing or if the abilities looked cool. Does anyone feel this way?

And yes of course you can turn off effects, and sadly, that's what you are encouraged to do because stuff is happening so ridiculously fast everything merges into a giant ball of light. There's nothing to appreciate in that.

I loved the idea of teleportation spells being massively long spells because it added to vibe of just how powerful a spell it really was, and only mages being able to execute them.

I don't think the battle system needs to change much outside of some QOL in terms of UI management personally. I wouldn't want it to become anywhere near what XIV is.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No I agree, the slow combat needs to stay 100%. The thing is, I want spells to be intricate in execution and beautiful to look at, and I want to see my character attack and have time to APPRECIATE what is actually going on. in XIV combat is so fast all I see is a ball of light and managing the hud and whatever I can glimpse the boss is doing to dodge the mechanic, and honestly, I don't remember the last time I actually had a chance to look and appreciate what my character was even doing or if the abilities looked cool. Does anyone feel this way?

I loved the idea of teleportation spells being massively long spells because it added to vibe of just how powerful a spell it really was, and only mages being able to execute them.

I don't think the battle system needs to change much outside of some QOL in terms of UI management personally. I wouldn't want it to become anywhere near what XIV is.

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And let's not forget the White Mage Taxi Service. "We'll get you to a crystal that is closer to your destination than you currently are!" :D

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

There just isn't a big enough market for a FFXI remake. It would either be DoA or need to be changed so much that FFXI players wouldn't like it, in which case who are you making it for?

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I'm not so sure about that. You know what game reminded me a bit of XI? Elden ring. Quests didn't tell you where to go, the world was very unforgiving, frightening, and it was a massive hit. Combat couldn't be more different but in terms of playstyle it was somewhat similar.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

there is a place and a demand for an MMO like XI.

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I don't think there's enough demand for it that is worth the cost of creating a whole XI remaster and keeping it up. Subscription-based MMOs have become a niche genre in the greater scope of things, let alone a remaster of an old one whose stories have already been told and whose gameplay is old.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

There are few games in the industry that are held so fondly by people who played them 20 years ago.

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That's the point. It's nostalgic to think about but I don't think any decision SE could make on a theoretical remaster would satisfy everyone who played the game in its heyday to enough of a degree to convince everyone who played it to pay to come back to it. Just like I have fond memories of where I grew up but it's changed so much that I would never move back there.

The scene has moved on and I don't think new OR old players today in enough numbers could stomach grinding for months to level up and at least for me, that experience was proportionally the most amount of time spent playing the game instead of MSQ or anything else. Eureka was proof of that since the Japanese servers tended to level up in Eureka the old-fashioned FFXI way while NA players had no patience for that and went straight to FATE party train regardless of whether or not how efficient it is. But if they were to change exp grind like they did with Abyssea to prevent the need for grinding and exp parties, then the game is already completely different than the one that most original players are familiar with and grew to love. Fiddling with game will always alienate portions of the old playerbase. It's hard enough to find a room full of FFXI players who all unanimously agree on whether or not Abyssea saved or ruined the game.

As well as that, I don't think there's enough to present to new players to convince them to spend a majority of their gaming time to it. The game has fewer races than FFXIV does now, 2 are genderlocked with racial stats that heavily encourage you to play specific jobs, and there aren't as many of those as there are in FFXIV either. The story has already been told and while it was quite good IMO, it wasn't played enough to have a significant number of people talking about it to be as classic as say FF7. I've never even played FF8 and I could at least pick out Squall, Rinoa, and Seifer from a lineup and know enough about them to actually name them without looking them up. I doubt non-XI players who are even familiar with the greater FF franchise know who Aldo, Raogrimm, Lion, or Nashmeira are while Shantotto and to a lesser extent Prishe are only known via crossovers and promotional material.

It would be much more worth SE's time and money to either make a completely new MMO or to take elements of FFXI that have not yet been utilized in FFXIV and port them over.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I don't think there's enough demand for it that is worth the cost of creating a whole XI remaster and keeping it up.

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It would be much more worth SE's time and money to either make a completely new MMO or to take elements of FFXI that have not yet been utilized in FFXIV and port them over.

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Oh I'm down for FF17 being a new MMO, and call me crazy but it just might be, numbering, time table matches up perfectly for that. I would welcome a new take on MMOs that welcomes social interaction instead of segregating you like XIV does. Whether there is demand for a remake is a subject of speculation of course. No one can say for certain if there is or isnt demand for that style of MMO because there hasn't been a well executed one since those days.

We can go down the rabbit hole of MMOs that failed but they failed for a million different reasons and execution was one of them, in fact, if XIV had not been such a tremendous TURD on a bug/lag/technical level that the playerbase abandoned it probably wouldve succeeded just fine and been a true successor to XI, as it was envisioned. It would be nothing like what it is today.

Alas 1.0 failed for a million reasons, and its playstyle was not the cause of the downfall. But what did SE do? Well it was desperate so of course it just copied the most successful MMO at the time because they weren't in a position to take risks anymore. But the people looking for a successor to XI and its playstyle DID show up at launch, it was just a massive let down.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Alas 1.0 failed for a million reasons, and its playstyle was not the cause of the downfall. But what did SE do? Well it was desperate so of course it just copied the most successful MMO at the time because they weren't in a position to take risks anymore. But the people looking for a successor to XI and its playstyle DID show up at launch, it was just a massive let down.

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I played PS2 launch FFXI through WotG and played FFXIV 1.0 from beta to meteorfall and playstyle was 100% one of the reasons why it failed. I wouldn’t even go as far as to say it was meant to be comparable to XI’s gameplay since they did their own thing and it was just horrible. XI would have been an improvement and some of my close friends from XI abandoned XIV 1.0 for XI soon after launch specifically for gameplay reasons over anything else and only came back when Yoshi-P took over, the job system was introduced, and the game was completely overhauled.

While I can see how some would disagree, stamina system and no auto-attack were not fun for most people and were the biggest complaints I personally heard in-game from other players at launch. Those were some of the things including the dreadful fatigue system that they got rid of quickly before even the 1.21 patch that completely changed everything.

There’s a difference between “taking risks” and “going in a completely whacky direction out of touch with the players”.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I'm not so sure about that. You know what game reminded me a bit of XI? Elden ring. Quests didn't tell you where to go, the world was very unforgiving, frightening, and it was a massive hit. Combat couldn't be more different but in terms of playstyle it was somewhat similar.

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I find this comparison to be a bit of a stretch. I think a better comparison would be Wildstar, and we know how that ended.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I played PS2 launch FFXI through WotG and played FFXIV 1.0 from beta to meteorfall and playstyle was 100% one of the reasons why it failed. I wouldn’t even go as far as to say it was meant to be comparable to XI’s gameplay since they did their own thing and it was just horrible. XI would have been an improvement and some of my close friends from XI abandoned XIV 1.0 for XI soon after launch specifically for gameplay reasons over anything else and only came back when Yoshi-P took over, the job system was introduced, and the game was completely overhauled.

While I can see how some would disagree, stamina system and no auto-attack were not fun for most people and were the biggest complaints I personally heard in-game from other players at launch. Those were some of the things including the dreadful fatigue system that they got rid of quickly before even the 1.21 patch that completely changed everything.

There’s a difference between “taking risks” and “going in a completely whacky direction out of touch with the players”.

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I also played and bought OG ARR. what made me quit was the horrible lag, FPS drops and janky menu. I think you are confused about what I mean with this argument, and it's that the whole of OG XIV, post fixes and refinements would've been a vastly different game if ARR was never developed. But it was such a bad implementation they felt it had to be nuked. Had they not made so many technical mistakes then the games population wouldn't have dropped to the point where they felt they had to clone WOW.

You are arguing from the perspective of keeping 1.0 patchless, and, well yeah, stuff had to improve gameplaywise too, but that wasn't the main factor, at least not to me. Not in the least.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

I find this comparison to be a bit of a stretch. I think a better comparison would be Wildstar, and we know how that ended.

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Oh jeez, I didn't know Wildstar was so wildly successful as XI, last I remember that thing was a flop everyone likes to bring up like it has anything to do with the topic. Perhaps you can clear up how Wildstar was a follow up or remaster to a successful game that had a relatively stable release and established fan base.