People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour? Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

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As someone who opens up FFXIV when I get home from work... I might not be great at hitting cooldowns and oGCDs in an optimal fashion, but basic 1-2-3 combos, single-target or AoE, in a Duty Finder dungeon are a reasonable expectation, I feel like.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour? Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

You can all argue until you're blue in the face, that reality won't change and it's a bit silly to expect otherwise. DF is and has always been a grab bag of skill that you use for the convenience of finding people automatically. That's all it is. If you don't like it there is always PF.

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just kick if it's that bad

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

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It's a bad example. As I said earlier:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

This isn't even about expecting people to optimize; even just spamming everyone's most basic AoE combo will reduce the trash kill times to 1/4~1/3 the single target times.

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For those people, even pressing AoE 1-1-1-1-1-1 or AoE 1-2-1-2-1-2 would do more damage than whatever single target rotation they're trying to do, and it would be easier even.

This talk of expectations has nothing to do with what OP said. It's a suggestion, that's all there is to it. It also has nothing to do with whether a person's casual or not, as I keep seeing. With that out of the way...

People who are not aoeing are just people who

a) Never read what the aoe does
b) Never bothered to found out
c) Actually read but don't care
d) Actually read but don't understand how multiplication works
e) Do care but they really want to freestyle
f) Actually never noticed that they've obtained said skills and just kept trucking on

At the end of the day, just ask, then deal accordingly.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

As someone who opens up FFXIV when I get home from work... I might not be great at hitting cooldowns and oGCDs in an optimal fashion, but basic 1-2-3 combos, single-target or AoE, in a Duty Finder dungeon are a reasonable expectation, I feel like.

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No one's going to be perfect all the time. I know I'm not. I also don't think it's unreasonable to want others to perform basic tasks. Random people are gonna be random though, and they tend to do random things, hence why I said that expectations should probably be tempered.

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

As a filthy casual myself, there's a difference between "casual" and "bad".

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hehe, me too these days. My raiding days were a decade ago.

But there are casuals, and then there are ..... casuals.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

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If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

And for the record, there is a rule stating you can't enforce your way of playing on others. This rule works BOTH ways, people who want to just be lazy leeches are NOT allowed to do that, and there's ANOTHER rule that hits them too that basically says you're not allowed to just sit there and be a leech.

And again, because I feel like it probably has to be specified - this is NOT an attack on people that aren't good at the game. This IS an attack on people who refuse to contribute to GROUP CONTENT.

I wonder if this happens in my groups, and I just don't notice.

I wonder if I don't notice because I just don't care.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

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If you story/level skip, you have an obligation to learn your job either outside of group content or in lower level content (which the story skip conveniently unlocks for you), instead of yeeting yourself into Tower of Zot and subjecting three other people to having to carry you through. In fact, if you're a story skipper and don't meet the bare minimum, I'd judge you even more harshly than I would someone else. At least the bad players who somehow get through the story without learning anything are just bad. Story skippers who choose not to put in effort to learn their job are choosing to be bad and choosing to force others to put up with the consequences of the story skipper's actions.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

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Exactly. If you're level skipping, you are griefing other people if you jump into a duty without reading your tooltips. And I'd argue that the people who enable this behavior are even worse than the people engaging in said behavior.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

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^ This. If someone is being a leech, kick them. Don't tell them why and give them reasons to report you, (seeing as SE is heavily biased towards toxic casuals when it comes to reports) but kick them. Punish THEM, not yourself.