What's up with the cone aoes hate?

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Before I saw the notes for 6.1 i'd have said no way in hell they'd do that to a dps.

Now I am no longer sure.

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Maybe they'll add back Volley of Death and Grenade Shot. I remember that, when they were 1st removed, people were upset because they were generally better for AoE purposes and were actually ranged (and had better animations IMO).

After that FIRST initial hit, the cone literally doesn't matter. At all. The mobs will always be right next to you.

In fact due to mob AI and them positioning themselves so they don't overlap their shared space it is entirely possible to MISS mobs DUE to the cone where the circle would hit them.

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Originally Posted by Dxzstar

So I have a question. Do you feel there is any issue with DRK's usage of lines for their aoe's? Since those are arguably vastly more frustrating to properly line up. Do you think Flood and Shadowbringer should become circular? What of BRD and MCH as well? I'm sorry if this seems patronizing but it seems like you don't really mind those so I kinda wanna confirm and if so, ask why?

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DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

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But cones are still melee. If you want to hit the pack, you need to be able to hit the furthest one from you, which means you are close to the ones at the front, so that logic doesn't work out.

It is also a massive benefit to the party if mobs aren't grouped around the tank but rather grouped infront of them, which is where the cone AoE excels, and it had a much wider range than people seem to give it credit for. Having everything infront also helps DRK and Paladin with Flood/Shadowbringer/Blade combo as it is easier to hit everything in the pack. Warrior's cone essentially taught this to tanks naturally, you might not know why exactly you were doing it, but you did anyway.

I was never a warrior main, however, whenever I did use it in a dungeon, it forced different pulling strategies on me, which helped to break the monotony of circles all the way.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I might agree with this if, like I said, mobs didn't naturally reposition themselves around the tank, and there were two tanks who utilised just cone AoEs. Then you could claim it was simply a different paradigm. But it's not, it works counter to the base mechanics of dungeon pulls.

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Quick reminder that until HW, 50% of Tankjobs were WAR with, afaik, at that time just the cone, and until ShB it was still 33% of Tankjobs that had just the cone for spammable AoE.
So saying it needs to be 2 or more tanks that have something basicly equates too 'No there shouldn't be a few options catering to less common tastes' because apperently, only the clear majority of options is valid.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I might agree with this if, like I said, mobs didn't naturally reposition themselves around the tank, and there were two tanks who utilised just cone AoEs. Then you could claim it was simply a different paradigm. But it's not, it works counter to the base mechanics of dungeon pulls.

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If the mobs position themselves haphazardly around you, it's your job as a tank to take a step back and gather them tightly again. Overpower naturally lent itself to this, so when playing casters and other 5y aoe on target aoe jobs, dungeons pulls felt a lot smoother than with say gunbreaker or paladin.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

DRK's is still questionable, but ranged DPS are designed to be, you know, at ranged, that's where cones work.

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I think it works about as well. Since you open up with overpower from a certain distance anyways and then keeping the mobs grouped right would require more work without it. DPS want the mobs in a tight ball. Which they will naturally separate out of. Especially with the larger mobs FF has taken to throwing out in the packs. (Looking at you Dead Ends) YOU, as a tank, should try to keep them from doing that. Say what you want, that is much easier with cones as your shorter, more inferior, circles will simply lack the range to smack the mobs at certain times while the DPS can just stand in the middle or target the middle most mob.

I admittedly didn't even realize it had an effect like that until I did dungeons with some FC members and one of them mentioned she preferred the way I grouped mobs. Man, I'm just using overpower. But since I learned, I tried doing it with circles and it is a mite bit more challenging. Not much mind you, likely no more than using cones is for you, but dang. Overpower cone was putting in work and I didn't even realize.

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Originally Posted by Dxzstar

So I have a question. Do you feel there is any issue with DRK's usage of lines for their aoe's? Since those are arguably vastly more frustrating to properly line up. Do you think Flood and Shadowbringer should become circular? What of BRD and MCH as well? I'm sorry if this seems patronizing but it seems like you don't really mind those so I kinda wanna confirm and if so, ask why?

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IMO yes Flood should absolutely be a circle. Line AoEs are okay on a DPS as you are free to move about to get the perfect line that hits all the mobs. On a tank, the mobs follow you and crowd around you, they do not politely queue up to be hit by your narrow line attack.

I don't really mind cone AoEs, what bothered me about Overpower is that it was the one cone AoE on a job where every other AoE was a circle, including the next step of the AoE combo. It means you constantly have to go in and out of the pack to hit everything, which is really annoying as a tank as it causes all the mobs to jiggle around which messes up the party's AoE too. I'd have been fine if they went the opposite direction and made Mythril Tempest, Decimate and Chaotic Cyclone into cones. I'm fine with BRD and MCH having all cones for that reason.

It's not so bad if the aoe shape disparity only happens every so often. For example SAM still has to hit a cone for Ogi Namikiri, MNK has to hit a line for Enlightenment (although Enlightenment is annoying for different reasons). But when it's every other combo attack it gets a bit tiresome. So I'd be okay with keeping Shadowbringer as a line, or more preferably a cone. But Flood should be a circle without question.

Ever heard of the “no player left behind” gambit?

To make sure no player is left out, all things no matter trivial that requires nuisance will be reduced to make sure *say it with me now*

No player is left behind. Effectively raising a spoiled base so conflict adverse it’ll make the TPC blush with non-action

Please no, please by the twelve stop talking about Dark Knight. Leave my Flood of Dankies alone it is the only tank I can comfortably pull on now.

Some of us not only have zero issues hitting mobs with cones but can hit them more easily with cones. You are vastly underestimating the width of the cone aoes when you use them and also the circular ones. There is no need for the tank to be center of pack, none at'all.

Am sick of wiffing my circular aoes that Tokyo drift behind you. The game has issues with updating mob positions because of slow tick rate. Overpower allowed me to follow up then catch anything I may have missed by firing it backwards. Myself and friends do this most frequently with flood too. Just.. leave it the heck alone. You all got your circles go play those tank jobs and stay the heck away from mine.