Genuine Scholar feedback

I see this argument’s back again. If it really concerns you then start using Dissipation on cooldown for those gains. Energy Drain has its place and removing it even with the MP shifted onto Aetherflow itself will only make Scholar worse (ie. less fun) to play. Let it be and get your priorities straight. You use it to heal if you have to because 100 potency is worth preventing death. Even a half asleep auto-attacking Dancer with double weakness will beat out 100 potency. A single GCD from anybody does. It is your reward for healing WELL with your entire toolkit, not the default option for Aetherflow stacks. Your own framing is the problem here. Personally I think having to spam a filler heal for MP on Sage is an objectively worse design because it encourages bad habits and inflates Sage’s healing contributions on easy fights which screws SE’s metrics. Energy Drain straight up tells the developers “We don’t need this much healing” and we need more healer resources that tell them that.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I see this argument’s back again. If it really concerns you then start using Dissipation on cooldown for those gains. Energy Drain has its place and removing it even with the MP shifted onto Aetherflow itself will only make Scholar worse (ie. less fun) to play. Let it be and get your priorities straight. You use it to heal if you have to because 100 potency is worth preventing death. Even a half asleep auto-attacking Dancer with double weakness will beat out 100 potency. A single GCD from anybody does. It is your reward for healing WELL with your entire toolkit, not the default option for Aetherflow stacks. Your own framing is the problem here. Personally I think having to spam a filler heal for MP on Sage is an objectively worse design because it encourages bad habits and inflates Sage’s healing contributions on easy fights which screws SE’s metrics. Energy Drain straight up tells the developers “We don’t need this much healing” and we need more healer resources that tell them that.

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Fun is subjective and personally i find it less fun to lose DPS on healing when it really doesnt have to be the case.
WHM also loses 85 potency on healing (4x glares vs 3 lilies and 1 blood lillies equals a 340potency defficite, divide by 4 and you get 85 potency per GCD) and even with a lower loss many WHM players try to avoid lilies as much as possible.
It doesnt matter how tiny of an impact it is, or if party member makes up for it with their dps.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

Fun is subjective and personally i find it less fun to lose DPS on healing when it really doesnt have to be the case.
WHM also loses 85 potency on healing (4x glares vs 3 lilies and 1 blood lillies equals a 340potency defficite, divide by 4 and you get 85 potency per GCD) and even with a lower loss many WHM players try to avoid lilies as much as possible.
It doesnt matter how tiny of an impact it is, or if party member makes up for it with their dps.

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Different mindeset. I think Aetherflow+Energy Drain is an interesting concept and I wish it could be expanded and not deleted. In a game where outgoing damage is too low and healing and mitigation are a joke, this feels refreshing in a way.

For some people, having an extensive healing kit that doesn't match the amount of damage we have in the game is fun, but not for me. I'd like SCH to receive some changes to make what already exists work better, but I primarily want it to keep offering a playstyle for those that like it. I'm always against further homogenization but if it has to come down to that, I'd rather get homogenization where it's fun (and more SGE/AST is not the way to make healing engaging or fun).

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Originally Posted by rewd

Different mindeset. I think Aetherflow+Energy Drain is an interesting concept and I wish it could be expanded and not deleted. In a game where outgoing damage is too low and healing and mitigation are a joke, this feels refreshing in a way.

For some people, having an extensive healing kit that doesn't match the amount of damage we have in the game is fun, but not for me. I'd like SCH to receive some changes to make what already exists work better, but I primarily want it to keep offering a playstyle for those that like it. I'm always against further homogenization but if it has to come down to that, I'd rather get homogenization where it's fun (and more SGE/AST is not the way to make healing engaging or fun).

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And that's why we'll never get anything we want from the devs, because people cant decide what they want. WHM dont wanna be punished for healing yet SCH players defend their punishment because it's "interesting". I've wanted a SCH overhaul ever since i saw the 5.0 rendition And now more than ever, Fey Gauge doesnt need to exist as a mechanic because its just Fey Union Fuel. Dissipation is in a identy crisis where it gives us more AF than we'd ever need but at the same time its not supposed to DPS skill, even though SCH overcaps on AF with just the basic 3 AF stacks. This system was so much better when we had more than just the 1 weakest offensive AF skill but now that it's stripped the class just feels incomplete. And ED was a bandaid that should've been replaced with a proper replacement years ago.
I don't want homogenization either but the current system leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion and the devs are too scared to double down on a unique playstyle rather than make clones with less clunk of already existing healers.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

And that's why we'll never get anything we want from the devs, because people cant decide what they want. WHM dont wanna be punished for healing yet SCH players defend their punishment because it's "interesting". I've wanted a SCH overhaul ever since i saw the 5.0 rendition And now more than ever, Fey Gauge doesnt need to exist as a mechanic because its just Fey Union Fuel. Dissipation is in a identy crisis where it gives us more AF than we'd ever need but at the same time its not supposed to DPS skill, even though SCH overcaps on AF with just the basic 3 AF stacks. This system was so much better when we had more than just the 1 weakest offensive AF skill but now that it's stripped the class just feels incomplete. And ED was a bandaid that should've been replaced with a proper replacement years ago.
I don't want homogenization either but the current system leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion and the devs are too scared to double down on a unique playstyle rather than make clones with less clunk of already existing healers.

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Yeah but, that's what an opinion is. I don't want SCH to loose one of the last unique aspect it carries on from the past (which is the decision making of using a heal or a damage CD).
You may find it boring (or uninteristing idk), I personnaly find it interesting since HW.
I however agree that it should get a better treamtment in the overall kit and the mechanic should be expanded or slighlty reworked, especially to get a better synergy between healing/damage/ressources

Risk/Reward classes/mechanics have their fans.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I don't want SCH to loose one of the last unique aspect it carries on from the past (which is the decision making of using a heal or a damage CD).

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The issue is that it's not a decision that rewards you. Using nearly all your Aether stacks on ED simply means you keep up on dps with AST/SGE. Right now it's not risk/reward, it's simply punishment for every Aether heal you use, because you gradually fall behind.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Yeah but, that's what an opinion is. I don't want SCH to loose one of the last unique aspect it carries on from the past (which is the decision making of using a heal or a damage CD).
You may find it boring (or uninteristing idk), I personnaly find it interesting since HW.
I however agree that it should get a better treamtment in the overall kit and the mechanic should be expanded or slighlty reworked, especially to get a better synergy between healing/damage/ressources

Risk/Reward classes/mechanics have their fans.

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I really don't get this. Interesting doesn't mean balanced. I find ED interesting as well. But when looked at and compared with the other healers. that choice creates an unbalance. Other healers can bring the damage SCH brings, but not at the expense of Healing and vice versa. That is where the issue lies. They can do something interesting but thats not the issue. Even Lilies even though blood lily can use a buff, the mechanic of using those heals and having a big attack work well with each other, not against.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I see this argument’s back again.

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This is super interesting as almost every opener and SCH i know is burning AF for ED.

Why not make ED more compelling/interesting/weavable? Why not make it something off of AF that can still reward a SCH for doing heals well (because they are using the weave for dps/ED instead of heals) without taking away heals? It's not black and white in that "it has to be on AF otherwise it's not rewarding" imo.

You could even have ED have a higher mp cost and/or have same mp cost as like a ruin2 equivalent to be a risk/reward system for managing your mp, and/or have a "Stack" of 3 EDs each AF granted to you so it's still at set controlled burst windows.

There's a lot you can do with it that isn't just "removing it" and I think the argument that "overcapping=bad" being the only justification for keeping it on AF is kinda silly imo. Why keep a 3 use skill on AF that can cost heals when you can have a 3 use ogcd weavable skill in your opener without using jank skills like dissipation to regain them?

In the end everyone can say it "rewards high level play" but most players I've seen and continue to see will burn through AF for even the smallest bit of potency because "damage is king." That's why they had to make changes to AST cards and still are trying to figure it out. The minute you look at the meta for everyone in every party as "do the most damage possible" the mechanics like AF costs to ED show that there's an inherent flaw to their design.

Using AF and/or dumping AF in an opener doesn't mean they're good, it just means they want to do more damage. And I don't blame them for the damage wants, but I feel we can make that "better" than how it currently exists.

The only drawback to ED off the AF gauge is lack of fey gauge accumulation but I feel fey gauge right now is only used for a tether which could easily be a sorteria equivalent buff to the fairy heals or a buff/regen from the fairy put on a party member. Or ED could have stacks that still do the thing it does now but not be linked to Aetherflow.

While it's fun to talk about "too much healing" in an ideal controlled environment, very often those are not the environments a lot of people are running content in my experience, so I think "feel" of the class is more important than the theoretical message of "we have too many heals" personally.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

This is super interesting as almost every opener and SCH i know is burning AF for ED.

Why not make ED more compelling/interesting/weavable? Why not make it something off of AF that can still reward a SCH for doing heals well (because they are using the weave for dps/ED instead of heals) without taking away heals? It's not black and white in that "it has to be on AF otherwise it's not rewarding" imo.

You could even have ED have a higher mp cost and/or have same mp cost as like a ruin2 equivalent to be a risk/reward system for managing your mp, and/or have a "Stack" of 3 EDs each AF granted to you so it's still at set controlled burst windows.

There's a lot you can do with it that isn't just "removing it" and I think the argument that "overcapping=bad" being the only justification for keeping it on AF is kinda silly imo. Why keep a 3 use skill on AF that can cost heals when you can have a 3 use ogcd weavable skill in your opener without using jank skills like dissipation to regain them?

In the end everyone can say it "rewards high level play" but most players I've seen and continue to see will burn through AF for even the smallest bit of potency because "damage is king." That's why they had to make changes to AST cards and still are trying to figure it out. The minute you look at the meta for everyone in every party as "do the most damage possible" the mechanics like AF costs to ED show that there's an inherent flaw to their design.

Using AF and/or dumping AF in an opener doesn't mean they're good, it just means they want to do more damage. And I don't blame them for the damage wants, but I feel we can make that "better" than how it currently exists.

The only drawback to ED off the AF gauge is lack of fey gauge accumulation but I feel fey gauge right now is only used for a tether which could easily be a sorteria equivalent buff to the fairy heals or a buff/regen from the fairy put on a party member. Or ED could have stacks that still do the thing it does now but not be linked to Aetherflow.

While it's fun to talk about "too much healing" in an ideal controlled environment, very often those are not the environments a lot of people are running content in my experience, so I think "feel" of the class is more important than the theoretical message of "we have too many heals" personally.

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This is exactly what we were talking about, even more homogenization. ED becoming oGCD Phlegma and Fey Union becoming Soteria or just fairy Regen/Aspected Benefic.

Eh, I'll pass.

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Originally Posted by rewd

This is exactly what we were talking about, even more homogenization. ED becoming oGCD Phlegma and Fey Union becoming Soteria or just fairy Regen/Aspected Benefic.

Eh, I'll pass.

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I mean you can call it "copying SGE" but I'm moreso about it copying SMN because SMN pet and actions feel 100 times better than anything SCH has or has had.

Fey Union being a big ol tether doesn't mean it's any less of a soteria, it's just in your mind that because it's "different" animation wise that it's different in execution. SGE copied SCH's homework and just changed a few things.

There's plenty that could be tweaked regarding Seraph and Dissipation and the fey skills that could set it apart, but imo the ai/fairy holds it back. We didn't have New SMN to compare to before and now we do.

Like it or not Energy drain as it currently stands IS "ogcd Phlegma" and Fey Union IS Soteria. Just because they make them "easier" or more reliable does not change this fact. ED keeping you from overcapping for a "whopping 300 potency" doesn't mean anything to anyone except for the SCH managing their AF. It doesn't "feel better to play" or "feel good to use" or "feel rewarding" just because you popped off some ogcds. I think making more options without tying it to AF is a better option personally.

Energy drain still generating fey gauge would mean more tether more often with proper control/management of your mp/resources inbetween heals possibly, who knows. Just digging your heels in and saying "I like the fairy" when the fairy is one of the worst aspects of SCH imo isn't really a good counter to me.

I think SCH can branch out and stop competing with itself with its kit sometimes is all.