Balance between SGE and SCH

When do you need to cast six Cure 3s?

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Originally Posted by Sighearth

I think you missed some of my previous posts in this topic. Doing 6 cure III with 2 thin air is the same as 10 helios as I explained before. I was doing a comparison between those 2 gcds (helios and cure 3) in a situation where you would need burst aoe heal on demand (meaning without cds so GCD heals) WHM still is a power house in GCD heal potency which is a niche that WHM could have a lead in comparison to AST. I'm not comparing their full toolkits. Obviously AST full kit is stronger healing wise than WHM. Yet WHM does way more damage than AST currently if someone can carry the heals. What if AST despite having way more heals also did more damage than WHM? This is what the situation with SCH/SGE is. IF you want damage between (ast/whm) bring whm, if you want heals bring ast, which is fine. For SCH/SGE, if you wanna damage bring SGE (by 5.3%), if you wanna heals also bring SGE (by almost 30%!).

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but ast will do more damage then whm, ast rdps contribution outdamage whm adps if timed right and now with divination not rely on cards its basically guranteed on burst windows timing. whm glare compare to malefic is small in comparison to the damage buff ast brings to a group and a well played group at that boost ast significantly then any selfish damage whm can output.

again its not true if u need to spam gcd cure III compare to helios, helios will win cause it can last longer, if for instance u need 1 cure III and ast will cast helios he will endure more the whm casting.

if u have a prolong phase where u spam heal gcd and u only have cure III compare to helios cure III will drain the mp much faster even if u delay casting gcd(1.5k mp), its range wont reach everyone unless they stack together(6y) and its cast time is slower.(2s)

however ast can last longer due to low mp cost (700 mp) have wider range which reaches everyone(15y), and faster casting time(1.5) meaning he can much easily top people before the next strike.

no matter how u compare it whm right now loses in every aspect to ast and our talk does not include ast brings shields along side his healing toolkit something whm cant compete or the fact that his gauge is the only one among the healers that wont be full when the fight starts.
right now the only reason you bring whm cause it has the basic healer reputation going on for him and nothing else,everything whm does ast does it better as things stands.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

When do you need to cast six Cure 3s?

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Nowhere lol, that was some illustrative random numbers.

I think there are a quite lot of problems with Scholar that Sage do not face.

Sage has some abilities that cancel each other but Scholar has abilities that literally make other abilities unable to be casted...

I like the fairy, but us eating it to cast some abilities really do it some injustice...

It has become much smoother than before for sure but the changes are underwhelming.

Also, White mages and Astro, I do not play these classes that much so can you tell me if your two jobs have any package of spells that legit cancel each others'?

Cause if you have now a Sage and a Scholar in the same team, you can hear the big "sigh" coming from the other side of the galaxy through your computer screen, accepting the fact that "I guess my shields are not working now, thaaanks..."

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

Cause if you have now a Sage and a Scholar in the same team, you can hear the big "sigh" coming from the other side of the galaxy through your computer screen, accepting the fact that "I guess my shields are not working now, thaaanks..."

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All it takes is one question to solve that 'sigh': "Hey, I'll be leaving the Succor/E.Prognosis duty to you, is that fine?"

If it's a party of randoms in via DF, all you have to determine is whether your co-SGE/SCH will use their GCD shield really often or not. Every other kits in their arsenals besides their GCD spells works together.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

All it takes is one question to solve that 'sigh': "Hey, I'll be leaving the Succor/E.Prognosis duty to you, is that fine?"

If it's a party of randoms in via DF, all you have to determine is whether your co-SGE/SCH will use their GCD shield really often or not. Every other kits in their arsenals besides their GCD spells works together.

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While this is true it is objectively bad design that they clash this bad. Obviously it wouldn't be good for shield stacks to totally trivialize content either but it would be nice if they could find an elegant way to solve 'shield collisions,' which have always been a problem, though that may be more a back end sorta issue rather than a class design issue.

And they definitely do need to pass over SCH and clean up how all the fairy abilities interact with each other and get rid of all those 'remove all those fairy abilities to get some sort of benefit in exchange' effects. It is conceptually interesting for SCH to say... have a super-mode where they can't use their fairy but get more healing and aetherflow, or replace their fairy with a different pool of effects, but people... kinda wanna use the abilities of the fairy when playing the class with the fairy, wildly enough, and I would rather the job be more designed around its interaction with its shield modifications and ability to make the fairy do stuff to set you up for success than eating it to spam ED 3 more times.

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Originally Posted by dezzmont

And they definitely do need to pass over SCH and clean up how all the fairy abilities interact with each other and get rid of all those 'remove all those fairy abilities to get some sort of benefit in exchange' effects. It is conceptually interesting for SCH to say... have a super-mode where they can't use their fairy but get more healing and aetherflow, or replace their fairy with a different pool of effects, but people... kinda wanna use the abilities of the fairy when playing the class with the fairy, wildly enough, and I would rather the job be more designed around its interaction with its shield modifications and ability to make the fairy do stuff to set you up for success than eating it to spam ED 3 more times.

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Couldn't agree more there. Ironically the PvP counterpart of Dissipation looks more interesting despite being simpler effect wise.