"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

haha yeah dont get me wrong Im not trying to RP walk and Netflix while doing a dungeon here. Can I at least look at piece of loot long enough But just yesterday I saw people left behind in main scenario queue (almost always see this) Left behind in Alliance raids, to where multiple people had to ask to stop pulling until everyone gets to the purple line. It was an awful miserable experience and its been a lot more common the past couple weeks for some reason.

Am I asking so much to watch a cutscene or even see what loot dropped? A lot of times people dont even open loot boxes so I have to stop and do it. They just run right past them.

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The Main Scenario dungeons are a different beast entirely. They're a relic of an older game design that was phased out entirely after ARR. A lot of people agree that they need to be either massively revamped or (and that's the option i'd go with) turned into solo duties.

As for Alliance raids, they're pure chaos, and I think that's the result of putting 24 people into the same raid with zero organization. Things can and will get messy.

And regarding the loot boxes, if no one seems to need them, groups will often just run past. No point going the detour if everyone's just going to pass on the loot. I've yet to see anyone complain when someone goes out their way to loot them though. And in post ARR dungeons, you no longer have chests tucked away in optional rooms behind an extra pack of mobs, everything's accessible.

As I said, no cutscene in a dungeon should last longer than 10 seconds. Anything beyond that is absolutely unreasonable and is at heart a development fault-that I will correct by skipping any time it breaches that limit in anything other than MSQ roulette. If you want to watch the full 1 or 2 minute cutscene, go ahead. You are 100% immune to damage while it's playing.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

But just yesterday I saw people left behind in main scenario queue (almost always see this) Left behind in Alliance raids, to where multiple people had to ask to stop pulling until everyone gets to the purple line.

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Why wait? After 15 seconds everyone gets teleported to the boss. If they're more than 15 seconds behind it's more time efficient to pull immediately versus waiting at the purple line spamming emotes.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

A lot of times people dont even open loot boxes so I have to stop and do it.

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You can open treasure chests while in motion. Target it as you approach, spam confirm as you pass by, impress your companions and friends with your dextrous technique!

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I hate it. I hate the go go go mentality of this and other MMO's. It is destroying my love for a beautiful game that I have otherwise fallen in love with.

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I suspect that, like me, you're an older gamer. A game to you is not a job, but a relaxing past time. It's an opportunity to admire scenery and artistry. It's a chance to interact with strangers while unwinding from the day's stress. Unfortunately, gaming culture has bypassed us, and now this is the prevalent attitude:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

One of the problems with going slow is that fighting 3 enemies is boring for everyone. It's boring for the DPS, who don't get to destroy an army of enemies and will probably end up doing single target. It's boring for the tanks, who don't have to mitigate or even try. It's boring for the healers, who don't have to heal hardly at all. Once you've gone fast it's hard to go back.

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I'm sorry, but I have trouble sympathizing with that point of view. Playing a video game at a normal pace is boring? For me, doing 4-6 hour shifts in guard towers staring at nothing but desert was boring when I was in the army. Standing in grocery lines for tens of minutes at a time is boring. Sitting through several beginner bands' concerts before getting to watch my kid play was boring. My standards for what constitutes boring are simply too high. I doubt we'll ever come to agreement on this, but a run where the healer is bored is a good run, IMO. Maybe it's just my military experience at play, but any engagement where you deliberately stack the odds against yourself by pulling in more enemies than necessary just seems like a terrible strategy. I've gone fast, and I hate it. I'm an old man. I've had a lifetime of stress, and I welcome the "boredom." If I ever get to the point where I feel a video game is boring when it's played normally, I'll just find another game to play.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It is destroying my love for a beautiful game that I have otherwise fallen in love with.

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I completely agree with you OP. I just generally outright refuse to do speedruns unless there is no choice in the matter. It's not ideal, but what I've done is I just don't level alt jobs. I have my main Job and just one other that I level side by side with each expansion. I never grind tomes for the latest gear. I never even attempt any of the extreme content. I just play the new content as it is released, once, and leave everything else for a day when hopefully they fully implement trusts. THEN, I will enjoy the dungeon content fully and level other jobs.

Again, it's not ideal, and not exactly the solution you're looking for ... but it's how I deal. I play much more casually than I would otherwise simply as a result of the systems I like not being in place. I still love this game. There's just so many other games TO play ... maybe it just gives me more time to play them instead. If they one day resolve this issue, then all those other jobs will be there waiting for me to enjoy. :)

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I doubt we'll ever come to agreement on this, but a run where the healer is bored is a good run, IMO.

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Then play with trusts and stop subjecting younger players to 30 minute dungeon runs.

Interestingly enough, all my dungeon runs with my partner in DF, while we don’t speedrun and we approach it sort of cautiously because it’s the first time for us, have taken 15-20 min. I have a feeling it’s a bit like driving a very fast car and trying to speed through traffic. You still gotta stop for the lights. That one pedestrian. That car that’s in your way. And in the end you gain a minute max. With a lot of sickening accelerating and hitting the brakes I might add :D

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I completely agree with you OP. I just generally outright refuse to do speedruns unless there is no choice in the matter. It's not ideal, but what I've done is I just don't level alt jobs. I have my main Job and just one other that I level side by side with each expansion. I never grind tomes for the latest gear. I never even attempt any of the extreme content. I just play the new content as it is released, once, and leave everything else for a day when hopefully they fully implement trusts. THEN, I will enjoy the dungeon content fully and level other jobs.

Again, it's not ideal, and not exactly the solution you're looking for ... but it's how I deal. I play much more casually than I would otherwise simply as a result of the systems I like not being in place. I still love this game. There's just so many other games TO play ... maybe it just gives me more time to play them instead. If they one day resolve this issue, then all those other jobs will be there waiting for me to enjoy. :)

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Can you explain exactly what it is about pulling two or more packs at a time, in content you've already cleared, that is so off-putting that it almost completely stops you from playing the game? I'm genuinely curious.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It's that much more boring to do a single target rotation than an AoE? if the single target mob dies too fast, then buff it. Make the mobs do more damage and have more health. Make us actually have to use sleep or bind on a mob. Oh the horror. Your solution is to go back later and do it with an undersized group??

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they are equally boring
Thus, I prefer your apporach, make the damange receive more intense, healing potency lower, and give some mechanics on trash, e.g. move certain trash mob to a puddle/avoid puddle, kill them in specific order, interrupt their skill, use sleep etc

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Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Except that it's not how a mmo is supposed to work...

Here, when a tank (who has the lead responsability by default) choose to play with a random group, he/she is supposed to ask his/her partners which pace they prefer.
And if only one person says "slow", then it should be slow. (At least at the start. One can ask a little while later if accelerating is ok)

Yes, it's like this. And no, it's not "the majority wins"

It's called manners.

A person who already know the dungeon and has the required skill to go fast is ALSO able to go slow, whereas a person who is able to go slow is not necessary able to go fast.
And no : slow players don't do it to provoke you. Even if the game is easy, they often are just not as accustomed to their controller as others.

When a player choose to play with a random group because he/she don't want to spend time to recrut himself/herself, he/she is supposed to apply this logic.

If you're not in the mood for it : go create a specific group to go fast from the start (or stop farming and play someting else that actually excite you) !


(And yes : everyone should have a keyboard to speak with others in-game. It' called manners too !)

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I think it should be a group decision, within their limit of cause

and if any party member feel the pace is too slow or too fast, the first thing should be ask in party chat

show each other some basic respect, talk before pulling for tank/letting someone die etc