[Suggestion] - Revise Party buffs (Strength in numbers) & (Comradery)

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Originally Posted by Roaran

17 likes say that people like the idea of getting more buffs because they think it will improve their DPS or whatever.

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Did you even read my original post ?

I asked for Strength in numbers to be removed and have other class aura's implemented in exchange, if the balance is correct there would be no improvement to DPS just more versatility in party management, as I and someone else noted the more classes that are added to the game the more unique and interesting a parties buffs will be.

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I would never consider 17 random people on the internet a good measure of a good idea.

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I never claimed it was, I just was comparing 17 likes to the amount of people replying to this thread.

Man talk about missing the point.

I don't think having 1 or each class would be a problem (especially when we end up with more classes and alliance style content), in most cases you would take what you can get at the time, or if someone has more than one job ask them to play something else (when I join a party the first thing I ask is what do you want me to go as ?), part of being in a group and a linkshell is adapting to fit into what the groups intentions are.

If someone only has one class levelled or is adamant they don't want to change we either go with 2 of one class (loose 1 buff, no big deal) or someone changes to balance the party.

What happens is the more classes you stack the more buffs you loose which is the whole point of the system, it encourages less stacking and more fairness across all class types.

Just gonna leave this here.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

There isn't any real purpose ... it's just creating unnecessary complexity just for the sake of it, you are supposed to be streamlining this game SE not making it more convoluted. :P

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Yeah I'm a jackass and I'm misquoting you, but it's my opinion on this subject~

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Just gonna leave this here.



Yeah I'm a jackass and I'm misquoting you, but it's my opinion on this subject~

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Well if you think my idea if unnecessary, overly complex and convoluted sure.

If I thought it was myself, I would have never posted it. :D

In a BLM burn, you wouldn't need the bonus to crit rate from WAR, the TP from DRG, or the evasion from MNK.

Tank, WHM, BRD, BLM x5 still good to go. Better solution is to find balance within the job abilities themselves rather than just stacking auras onto everything.

Indeed, in a BLM burn, you don't need all those buffs.
But imagine we change some ideas, like:
MRD - Increased Attack
PGL - Increased attack speed
I'm not sure that 3 BLMs can do more damage than a MRD, PGL and DRG with higher attack, attack speed and TP generation.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I'm a lvl 50 GLA and it really matters to me that most people reject PLD in pick-up. Of course, since your main is MRD, you're not really concerned about uselessness. For setup, you will have PLD WAR DRG MNK BRD BLM WHM and WHM. So basically, any people who want to join will have a chance unless the setup already have one of the job.

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Current stacking:
Sorry, you're not BLM, kthnxpie.

Future one of each:
Sorry, we have every class except BLM, kthnxpie.

You are lying to yourself if you think one of each suddenly make it easier to get a party. It's not. The only way easier to get a pt is to have every class/job lvl 50 fully equipped with optimal gears. Period. What make you think that a PT that is restricted to one of each class + an extra WHM, will be willing to take a 9th (lol) member as PLD? Are you serious? Sorry, we already got PLD, bye~

Also the Tank-Healer-DD Trinity is what killing you, because in a PT that already has a PLD to tank, there is simply no room for another PLD. It is even more so if it's forced to have one of each class, it is even more rigid.

I really like your analysis.

Currently, if you level anything save WHM, BLM and WAR, you won't get invited.
Tomorrow, you won't get invited if the PT already-have-one-of-each-or-your-classes-and-doesn't-need-any-duplicate-of-one.

And you still say it won't be easier to get an invitation ?

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

Maybe there should just flat up be a "treasure hunter" bonus for using a diverse party.

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No. That has been the lead weight tied to THF that has kept that job down for more years than I'm willing to count. Let's not invite that mess into this game.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

I can't stress enough how wrong the idea is. And it's not anything personal, but you're just not looking deep enough into the problem and what the desired results actually are.

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I think Jnko is aware of the bigger problem, but this is something that could be implemented tomorrow and not throw the game into disarray.

We know the facts: Encounter design favors range, and DPS potential favors range. Melee are considered a liability and there's mechanics in place that punish melee but not range. PLD is a mess in and of itself that needs to be fixed.

I mean yes, MNK, DRG, BLM and ARC/BRD need to be balanced to be around the same DPS potential, with probably DRG and BLM slightly (within 1-2%) edging out MNK and ARC/BRD.

Encounters should be designed to challenge everyone, not just punish melee. All that, however, will take a lot of work, and I hope the developers are keeping that in mind as they work on 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I really like your analysis.

Currently, if you level anything save WHM, BLM and WAR, you won't get invited.
Tomorrow, you won't get invited if the PT already-have-one-of-each-or-your-classes-and-doesn't-need-any-duplicate-of-one.

And you still say it won't be easier to get an invitation ?

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You still don't get it do you?

If a party has a PLD, why should we extend the invitation to you, another PLD? Why? WHY? WHY? There is no point in doing so, because the buff doesn't stack! And one tank is more than enough tank if you consider the prequisite min one WAR as well. Almost everybody who is "in" a pt now has every job to maxed, they will not miss out either way. Only people who adamantly do not want to play another job other than what they play, will be left out as always. Sorry, we all have PLD job to 50 with gears most likely better than you, any of us could go PLD and be much more efficient.

See, that's why in order for you - who don't want to play anything but PLD - get a pt, the balance has to be at the root, where PLD can bring in something other than a mandatory buff that can not stack, and tanking. Hence the Tank-Healer-DD Trinity is what killing you.

For example, if for some reason WAR dmg become sucky and they can only tank without DD, give me a reason why we should invite more than one WAR. Also, between a WAR who have all job 50, using Primal Axe, wearing multiple melded-gear and has over 4,700 Hp, compared to a WAR with one job 50, using lvl 48 Bhuj and has single melded-gear with measly 4,000 Hp, who is it that going to get the oh-so-precious single WAR position in the pt?

One tank has always been enough. But there won't be only one PT to join.
Even with balance, you almost never need a 2nd tank, so this problem already exists.

But worse, nowadays, the one tank is almost always WAR. So your question needs to be: If a PT already has a WAR, why should they invite me, a PLD ? Because my Aura can be useful, and the WAR can still DD.

WAR should always be a DD first, because PLD is only designed to be a tank, so it have to be the main one.
Indeed, there's a lot of PLD with better equipment than mine but even those ones aren't invited, so it's basically useless. And "Go level another job" is a crap answer. Why make seven classes, if only three are useful ?

Do you realise that everything you say already exists in the game ? If you can, you'll always choose the best equipped people.
But a lot of people will invite a crappy equipped WAR or BLM over a good equipped DRG, PGL or PLD, because they use "the job !" (And in fact, you don't always check the stuff before inviting someone)

As as said, with these, I won't be invited if the PT already have each of my jobs. Nowadays I won't be invited if I don't have one of THE jobs. That's a pretty big difference.