Consumable arrows

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Your just wrong. Armorer and Goldsmith also make ingots for arrows. You appear to want to argue about classes and recipies when your not even familiar with them.



Says the guy without those classes. Just because you blurt some foolish statement like this out, by all means does not make it true. Its highly relavent to thse classes that use it. Its by miles, the most consumable item in the game. Don't sit there on your making these foolish claims that classes don't matter just because you don't play them.

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I'm still a consumer who knows how to work mooglebox. I can see what the recipes are and I can see what each craft is capable of making.

What I was saying is that the battle mechanics for a discipline of *WAR* class shouldn't be dictated by discipline of hand or land. That's like saying whms should have their shroud of saints removed and blms should have their convert removed because it means alchemists don't sell as many ethers. Those same classes could still be used in the creation of the non-consumable arrows. I don't understand why you think the entire worth of like 5 classes rests on the sale of arrows which are used by *one* class.

Also you don't have botanist, crp, armorer or blacksmith. Why are you allowed to comment and I'm not?

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Your just wrong. Armorer and Goldsmith also make ingots for arrows. You appear to want to argue about classes and recipies when your not even familiar with them.

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Actually all the ingots for non-dated arrows can be made by Blacksmiths. However the same argument could be used for Goldsmith and Armorer. There are so many other things that those ingots are used for on Goldsmith and Armorer that they won't miss it. Maybe you should read up before you argue about things you clearly don't know about.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Both Ingots and arrows use the sime materials from miners to make. they are both made in one synth. Its laughable that you keep making failing attepts to claim they are so different in this situation.

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The ingots can be use for a wide variety of things outside of arrows. The blacksmith won't miss much because arrows don't exist as a consumable item. Your argument would only hold if ingots were only used for arrows.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

And you both are 100% sure arrowheads do not exist at this time in arrows in this game?......interesting, that explains alot.

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They won't be for long. They're dated recipes and people should get used to not using them since they'll be removed soon enough. Also no one would buy dated arrows so it doesn't affect their income.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Right. Lets compare the most consumable item in the game to everything else.

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We're comparing items that crafters can make and level off of. I'd say any recipe is fair game.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Says the guy without those classes. Just because you blurt some foolish statement like this out, by all means does not make it true. Its highly relavent to thse classes that use it. Its by miles, the most consumable item in the game. Don't sit there on your making these foolish claims that classes don't matter just because you don't play them.

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As a gatherer, I agree with Welvum. There goes your entire argument. It is an item that is quickly consumed however you make 333 of them with 1 synth. They are probably the easiest item to make in large volumes these days. Botanists and Miners won't miss the business from arrows.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

Also you don't have botanist, crp, armorer or blacksmith. Why are you allowed to comment and I'm not?

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Because as much as he's talking about BTN, CRP, ARM, and BSM, apparently the only class that matters in this discussion is GSM.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

Also you don't have botanist, crp, armorer or blacksmith. Why are you allowed to comment and I'm not?

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No one said your not allowed to comment. What I said was

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I love seeing folks with classes at level 0, explain how those who have then at level 50 are wrong in what they say about them or how something will effect them.

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As you can see, what I clearly said was not to attept to tell me how it will effect me and what we do and do not do. your the only one saying you can't comment, I never said that.

Your wrong about what I do and do not have class wise as well. I do have botonay into the 30s and carpenter in the mid 20s, both of which I am leveling at this time. I may notbe an "old hand" at arm/bls but Ihave every class at least to level 10. so it seems a bit comical that a poster with all of those classes at literally 0 wants to debate them. Although I do see you have BoT to level 14. So at least in that capacity you are somewhat familiar with DoL.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Actually all the ingots for non-dated arrows can be made by Blacksmiths. However the same argument could be used for Goldsmith and Armorer. There are so many other things that those ingots are used for on Goldsmith and Armorer that they won't miss it. Maybe you should read up before you argue about things you clearly don't know about.

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Yes, I am well aware of who can make what ingot, you sure have a knack for stating the obvious. As I do not invest my time at this point in arm/bls as much at this point, it was not relavent to my personal position.
But to tell us what we will and will not miss is a bit of pressumtuous ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

The ingots can be use for a wide variety of things outside of arrows. The blacksmith won't miss much because arrows don't exist as a consumable item. Your argument would only hold if ingots were only used for arrows.

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None of that changes the fact that your attepting to justify to 5 classes, why they should have the most consumed consumable in the game, relative to them, removed. Are you saying you want to claim my perspective is invalide simply because some of the recipe items can be used else where? That is almost laughable.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

As a gatherer, I agree with Welvum. There goes your entire argument. It is an item that is quickly consumed however you make 333 of them with 1 synth. They are probably the easiest item to make in large volumes these days. Botanists and Miners won't miss the business from arrows.

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Again you pressume to tell us as gatherers, how we will and wil not feel about this. From a gatheres perspective, I am telling you your wrong. Your perspective does not apply to everyone.

I find it rather comical that you're using the classes that make eq as a justification for what affects the class that actually has to *use* the arrows. Paladins should have no impact on shields because 4-5 other jobs are involved in making shields.

Also I don't think you should be telling level 50 crafters and gatherers like Arcell how they will or won't feel.

I wanted to debate archer itself but you made it about crafters/gatherers claiming how they're affected by a change to archer is more important than how archers are affected.

All the money I ever spend is on arrows, which is kind of annoying, but still I'm fine with it :)
It's good for the crafters and the economy, and I also think it's fair.
Yes, BLM can cast without consuming any ammo, but BLM also runs out of MP very fast.
Once their MP are gone, they are totally helpless and useless.
Archers on the other hand can just keep on shooting unless they forgot to bring enough arrows to a fight..which should never happen ;)

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Originally Posted by Atoli

All the money I ever spend is on arrows, which is kind of annoying, but still I'm fine with it :)
It's good for the crafters and the economy, and I also think it's fair.
Yes, BLM can cast without consuming any ammo, but BLM also runs out of MP very fast.
Once their MP are gone, they are totally helpless and useless.
Archers on the other hand can just keep on shooting unless they forgot to bring enough arrows to a fight..which should never happen ;)

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True however BLMs can just stand still to regain MP, as well as have Bards sing or use some of their own MP regen skills. Archers can't do that with arrows.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Yes, I am well aware of who can make what ingot, you sure have a knack for stating the obvious. As I do not invest my time at this point in arm/bls as much at this point, it was not relavent to my personal position.
But to tell us what we will and will not miss is a bit of pressumtuous ignorance.

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You keep saying "we" but I think you mean to say "I". Claiming that your opinion applies to other Goldsmiths is a bit presumptuous. Honestly, Goldsmiths have the least to do with this argument out of all the classes. They make one ingot that is used for arrows, Mythril, that's it. Bronze, Iron, Steel and Cobalt are all made solely by Armorers and Blacksmiths. However with your logic, since I have Blacksmith and Armorer well into their 20s, my opinion here is more valid than yours.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

None of that changes the fact that your attepting to justify to 5 classes, why they should have the most consumed consumable in the game, relative to them, removed. Are you saying you want to claim my perspective is invalide simply because some of the recipe items can be used else where? That is almost laughable.

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Most consumed item in the game, yes. Highest volume of creation in the game, also true. It balances out. Also I'd say at this point food items may be consumed more, proportionately. One synth makes 333 arrows, so 3 synths to a stack of 999. That's a lot of items for only 3 items used. I'm claiming that your argument holds little value because by losing out on the arrow creation, crafters and gatherers aren't losing out on much. The ingots can be used elsewhere so Blacksmiths and Armorers could still create them for the purposes of income and leveling.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Again you pressume to tell us as gatherers, how we will and wil not feel about this. From a gatheres perspective, I am telling you your wrong. Your perspective does not apply to everyone.

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Again, there you go with that "us" nonsense. Start learning to speak for yourself and let others do the same. From a gatherer's perspective I'm telling you that you are wrong. Your perspective does not apply to everyone.

Also you should probably start bringing up some facts to support your argument. All you're doing is telling me that my opinion is wrong. I've at least brought some elements to consider to the table.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

You keep saying "we" but I think you mean to say "I". Claiming that your opinion applies to other Goldsmiths is a bit presumptuous. Honestly, Goldsmiths have the least to do with this argument out of all the classes. They make one ingot that is used for arrows, Mythril, that's it. Bronze, Iron, Steel and Cobalt are all made solely by Armorers and Blacksmiths. However with your logic, since I have Blacksmith and Armorer well into their 20s, my opinion here is more valid than yours.

Did you eat alot of paint chips as a child?


Most consumed item in the game, yes. Highest volume of creation in the game, also true. It balances out. Also I'd say at this point food items may be consumed more, proportionately. One synth makes 333 arrows, so 3 synths to a stack of 999. That's a lot of items for only 3 items used. I'm claiming that your argument holds little value because by losing out on the arrow creation, crafters and gatherers aren't losing out on much. The ingots can be used elsewhere so Blacksmiths and Armorers could still create them for the purposes of income and leveling.

Thats just your opinion. Some disagree with it. You keep attempting to convince us that because you claim an arguement has little value that its fact.

Again, there you go with that "us" nonsense. Start learning to speak for yourself and let others do the same. From a gatherer's perspective I'm telling you that you are wrong. Your perspective does not apply to everyone.

Why? It was okay when you did it. just following suit with you.

Also you should probably start bringing up some facts to support your argument. All you're doing is telling me that my opinion is wrong. I've at least brought some elements to consider to the table.
I have as many facts as you. I have yet to tell you your opinion is wrong. Thats what you keep doing.

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Go back and re-read the thread. You seem to be quit confussed about who said what and when.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

True however BLMs can just stand still to regain MP, as well as have Bards sing or use some of their own MP regen skills. Archers can't do that with arrows.

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There regen of MP is limited in battle. Especially solo.
But yeah bards can aid in MP replenishment, very much like DoH can replenish a bards arrows.

So again you typed out a lot without really saying anything. Why is this a true detriment to anyone, Goldsmiths especially? You didn't really refute that claim, you just asked if I ate paint chips as a kid. Hardly an actual defense for your argument.

Refute the argument that Goldsmiths have little to do with this thread. Goldsmiths only make ONE type of ingot used for arrows, out of five. Goldsmiths aren't even able to make the other four. Goldsmiths have many other recipes that they can level on and make money off of. Why are arrows so important to them?

You keep saying that they are the most used item in the game and yet you refuse to acknowledge that they are also the item with the highest production volume in the game. Refute that, I dare you.

You have as many facts as me? Show them then. Start posting actual numbers and real arguments and maybe I'll take you seriously for a second. You have yet to post any kind of real info supporting your argument.

You're right a DoH can support a Bard in replenishing arrows. So, show of hands here, who has a DoH with them when they go into dungeons, Primal fights, or any end-game content that simply follows them around and gives them arrows? Anybody? No, didn't think so. Meanwhile Bards are a common part of party setups in end-game content, more likely to have one around at any given time.

So seriously, convince me that this is an actual issue for DoL/H. Convince me that losing arrows as a consumed item will be a drastic detriment to them. Show me how it would so adversely affect Goldsmith because honestly, I'm seeing them lose a SINGLE source of people buying Mythril ingots among a great many. If you can't do this then your argument really doesn't hold any merit. And don't come back with "I don't have to prove anything to you" or "It's so obvious I shouldn't have to explain it." If you can't explain it in detail, don't bother posting.