The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

I feel like there should be levels of difficulty next to each jobs name.

Monk would be top difficulty.



Monk isn't bad, Monk is completely viable for every encounter (Yes including Chimaera) It just takes a LOT more skill and a MUCH larger attention span. People don't NOT invite monks because Monks are bad, They don't invite monks because there's a much larger chance that somebody playing a monk is going to be bad and mess up the party.


I've seen Monk top DMG on Every fight, save for Princess.



Now, Think about what you're really asking though: Fights so homogenized that it favors NO class? That would in fact lead to the most boring encounters I could think of. I really enjoy that certain classes have abilities that cause them to shine on a fight, and hope they keep that model. I also feel that did that really well in this patch.



Coincounter: Bards are amazing on coincounter, they do just as much DMG( probably more ) Than your BLMs and have the full uptime that the Melee won't have. They're not game-breakingly ahead but they certainly get to shine here.

Miser: Monk. Fist of Fire. Pure win. Along with that, your BLM has an irreplaceable tool in the form of Sleepga for this fight.

Princess: Warriors/Dragoons. Finally, an AOE fight where things hit hard enough that you can entirely warrant to bring your heavy plate AOE classes. The guard spawning every 1 minute lines up perfectly with lots of their burst skills (Jump, Steel Cyclone)

Chimaera: Black Mages excel hardcore here. Magic Vulnerability+ The ability to avoid all AOE at a range? The physical Resistance makes Bards, Warriors, and Dragoons less viable for this fight. Monk is still the highest DPS on this fight. The last phase it is very frustrating to dodge traps, but if you suceed you are easily rewarded with the highest damage out of any of the classes. I've yet to really test Dragoon on this fight. The increased melee range may make it quite a viable option.



You know the class that should be complaining?


Paladin.


You gave them another Block Ability, and Sanguine Rite. So What? Still not enough. The DMG Mitigation is barely ahead warriors, HP is lower and dmg is maybe 1/10th. Not to mention Warrior with Mighty Strikes is capable of self healing themselves back from empty.

People keep blaming community but the issue is if you don't speed run it isn't worth doing. Persuading 7 people to let you go as the job you want at the risk of them not getting their shot at the speedrun chest just isn't going to happen and it's not the community's fault.

SE need to step in and do something.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

I feel like there should be levels of difficulty next to each jobs name.

Monk would be top difficulty.

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nope. monk is pretty straight forward. paladin and dragoon are more complex than monk. paladin is probably the hardest to pick up and play adequately. bard, played perfectly, probably has the highest skill ceiling.

otherwise, in spite of a couple other things i disagree with (ie: bard should never beat blm in damage on any 2min fight, unless your blms are really bad), you make some good points.

run through avoiding monster and aoe sums up dungeons quite nicely
although I haven't done many they all look the same until you get to bosses

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Originally Posted by fusional

nope. monk is pretty straight forward. paladin and dragoon are more complex than monk. paladin is probably the hardest to pick up and play adequately. bard, played perfectly, probably has the highest skill ceiling.

otherwise, in spite of a couple other things i disagree with (ie: bard should never beat blm in damage on any 2min fight, unless your blms are really bad), you make some good points.

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If you include the distance from you and the mobs, your health, and having "tank" moves when you can't really tank, I sorta agree with Quatre. No way is Dragoon harder to play with it's almost limitless TP buildup lol. Ifrit was a good example for this, you almost NEVER saw Pugilist in the party because of the damage they would take from being so close.

Bard is just buff when the buff goes down and buff certain people something different. And you have an instant hate remover plus attacking from far.

Paladin I see as hard since half the time they can't keep hate for sh*t with a Warrior in the party.

But all in all, this is all opinion. Some people play the hardest class the best while they play the easiest the worst.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

No way is Dragoon harder to play with it's almost limitless TP buildup lol.

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the more TP you have to play with the harder it is to play the job (correctly), as it begins to taking much much much more creativity and skill to squeeze out as many WSs as humanly possible and perfect your rotation. played correctly, dragoon should outdps warrior on princess, both single target and aoe. this doesn't happen often, however, because dragoon isn't easy to play correctly.

it's easy to just hit buttons when you have TP, but if that's your argument- every melee in this game is faceroll.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Ifrit was a good example for this, you almost NEVER saw Pugilist in the party because of the damage they would take from being so close.

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getting hit by sear more often doesn't make it more difficult to play pgl/mnk. it simply makes it more difficult to dps without taking damage. they aren't the same thing.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Bard is just buff when the buff goes down and buff certain people something different. And you have an instant hate remover plus attacking from far.

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no, that isn't all bard is. an excellent bard is quite capable of 115 single target dps on mistress. while that's quite a bit lower than what the blms and mnks are doing, it's also really fucking hard because dpsing isn't all the bard is doing. the distance advantage also doesn't mean the job doesn't have an incredibly high skill ceiling. it just means it's easier to pick up and smash your face on the keyboard a few times to dps without taking too much unnecessary damage.

correlation does not imply causation.

i'll believe you about bard being really easy when it becomes standard for every single bard in the game to easily hit melee with BV+paeon, backline with BV+ballad (or minuet, if you prefer), then proceed to top 110 dps while tossing spot heals at hairy moments.

They have a high skill ceiling when all parties want for content is BLM, BRD, WAR, and WHM. OK

I hate to say it but suck it up and let MNK shines where it shines. This is SE were talking about if you cry for them to balance everything we'll get some hellish content like abby and VW in FFXI where you were forced to bring jobs for artificial reasons.

Honestly I prefer if they perhaps created content that a mnk can excel at over a AOE classes/jobs. If they have the highest single target DPS then a battle against a single boss where a MNK can truly shine.

Really, I think everyone should have multiple classes leveled, how fair is it if you only have one job leveled when everyone else in your group have multiple jobs leveled? Some of which they may not like... Hell in FFXI I leveled WHM(didn't particularly like the job) because my ls was running short on WHM's and the same people were playing it hating the job more and more. Just to be as helpful as I can.

I don't really disagree with op's post but, the beast is what it is. It would be nice if SE made reasonable adjustments to the dungeon, but I fear we'll get more of a lame nerf than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Yves

I really do agree with the post. HOWEVER...

This is FF. One of the biggest gripes I had with XI and XIV has been that certain classes will be excluded from certain content. I didn't want to play RNG or SMN in XI but guess what? If you wanted the ACP win you were pretty much stuck with a certain setup (pre-uber patch.) It shouldn't be this way but it is and will likely always be. If you want to experience more success then you need to branch out and have multiple classes - THIS IS WHAT THE ARMORY SYSTEM WAS DESIGNED FOR. Again, I'm not knocking the validity of the post - I just don't see it being probable that single-class players will get very far in this game.

Just watch - Garuda will end up being melee-centric and then suddenly BLM is going to be neglected and we start getting the same issue with another class.

Yes, part of this is a function of the community but I don't think anyone can blame people for wanting to be more efficient. While it is true that people can experiment and explore other options, it seems that the OP is not in this position since they are waiting for /sh groups (generally a dangerous predicament to begin with!) To ask these people to potentially forgo hours of gameplay to test a theory is uncool as the investment will exceed the reward in that you will gain very little (if anything) from practicing 10 runs before getting it down. That would be about 6 hours of total time invested to possibly shave 2-3 min from a run, meaning that, well...you can do the math. The return on investment would take far too long to make any sense.

Yes, it sucks. No, it shouldn't be this way. Yes, it is probably going to stay this way. Yes, you need to level other jobs or find a game that doesn't require this kind of flexibility.

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Hmmm I must be one of the few who beat Alexander and the Crystal in ACP with all MNK DD setup....pre 75+ update.


But yes I dislike how unflexible the current high level content is, I also dislike how just about everyone is scared to stick their head out for different strategies.

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Originally Posted by fusional

the more TP you have to play with the harder it is to play the job (correctly), as it begins to taking much much much more creativity and skill to squeeze out as many WSs as humanly possible and perfect your rotation. played correctly, dragoon should outdps warrior on princess, both single target and aoe. this doesn't happen often, however, because dragoon isn't easy to play correctly.

it's easy to just hit buttons when you have TP, but if that's your argument- every melee in this game is faceroll.



getting hit by sear more often doesn't make it more difficult to play pgl/mnk. it simply makes it more difficult to dps without taking damage. they aren't the same thing.



no, that isn't all bard is. an excellent bard is quite capable of 115 single target dps on mistress. while that's quite a bit lower than what the blms and mnks are doing, it's also really fucking hard because dpsing isn't all the bard is doing. the distance advantage also doesn't mean the job doesn't have an incredibly high skill ceiling. it just means it's easier to pick up and smash your face on the keyboard a few times to dps without taking too much unnecessary damage.

correlation does not imply causation.

i'll believe you about bard being really easy when it becomes standard for every single bard in the game to easily hit melee with BV+paeon, backline with BV+ballad (or minuet, if you prefer), then proceed to top 110 dps while tossing spot heals at hairy moments.

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I'll actually cede my point and agree with you, and reword what I was going for.


I think Monk is the most difficult to play without taking party-crippling damage.

BRD, Dragoon, can all be played relatively "Safely" and still do adequate damage. However, like you said it takes going above and beyond to become great at either.


Out of curiousity, Is you bard stacking Dexterity or Piety? I've only capped out at ~ 100 DPS on Miser and ~200 DPS on Princess with a DEX Build, but haven't done any theorycrafting on PIE vs. DEX.


Edit: I forgot to mention my first love, Paladin. I'll agree it has a high skill ceiling for a Paladin, But what encounter does going the extra mile really help on right now? I can only think of Coincounter, where you're better off being GLA. Besides Coincounter where you can get 1shot if you don't have proper gear, all other fights WHMs usually sit on fill MP Nuking cause healing isn't very demanding anyway