a question for healers.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

small pulls are boring and the "new inexperienced" tank (this excuse is especially funny in shb dungeons) is gonna be a nightmare at level cap if they don't ever learn how to wall pull properly while leveling.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

I understand that tanking isn't everybody's thing, but honestly if you feel so uncomfortable with the prospect you should avoid group content where people may have expectations that you can play your job according to the level you have it at. Like hey if you're actively trying or asking for tips no one minds, but outright refusal with the excuse of "i'm new" tends to rub people the wrong way.

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Nothing you said there makes any allusion about someone not asking tips or refusing advice. Quite the opposite if they take the time to tell you they are new and/or inexperienced.

And being inexperienced or new is a thing even at level 70, even in ShB dungeon. If someone want to try maining tank, they will have to go follow that learning curve and they will have to do group content whether you like it or not.

i apologize if my question confused anyone. i was asking more about brand-new tanks, in brand-new gear, fresh sastasha, etc. not late game inexperienced tanks... sorry about the misunderstanding

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Originally Posted by Suzuka196

i apologize if my question confused anyone. i was asking more about brand-new tanks, in brand-new gear, fresh sastasha, etc. not late game inexperienced tanks... sorry about the misunderstanding

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The same thing still applies there for the most part, but perhaps even more so. In the lower level dungeons like Sastasha sometimes a single heal can bring a tank back from near death to full health (Essential Dignity, I'm looking at you!) so a lot of healers tend to lose any semblance of patience with smaller pulls there.

Most semi-experienced players of any role will probably lean towards larger pulls/faster runs of those dungeons for similar reasons. They're missing most of their class kit so things don't feel fun to play. It just hits especially hard on the healers, so everyone wants large pulls to AoE down quickly and get out.


Edit*
Just as an example, I just got out of a Halatali NM run (so around level 23 I think)
The tank had 800 HP, my oGCD (Essential Dignity) healed them for 510ish on a normal heal, 700 for a Crit. My GCD (Benefic I) was healing for around 300 on a normal heal. I can bring a tank up from near death incredibly fast, and with us doing single group pulls their HP rarely dropped below 500ish. This means doing single group pulls just drags the dungeon out into pure tedium for me, and I wind up just spamming nothing but my nuke the entire dungeon run. I'm essentially playing the dungeon pressing one key, and occasionally hitting my oGCD when the tank is almost dead.

It's boring as hell.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Nothing you said there makes any allusion about someone not asking tips or refusing advice. Quite the opposite if they take the time to tell you they are new and/or inexperienced.

And being inexperienced or new is a thing even at level 70, even in ShB dungeon. If someone want to try maining tank, they will have to go follow that learning curve and they will have to do group content whether you like it or not.

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"Hey can you pull more." "No, I'm new to tanking."

So what part of that is asking for tips?

Nah, son. When you hit level 70 you will be treated like a level 70 player, not a level 15 one. Whether you jumped or fated your way there or not. No one's barring anyone from group content, but there should be no surprise when your group has expectations of you regardless of role.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

23

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I'm pretty sure a bunch of jobs don't even have an AoE skill at this point, which means pulling large amounts of enemies is mostly pointless.

Something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

I'm pretty sure a bunch of jobs don't even have an AoE skill at this point, which means pulling large amounts of enemies is mostly pointless.

Something to keep in mind.

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They did in this case, but I was speaking to the general point of why healers tend to get impatient with small pulls with a concrete example. Just trying to demonstrate healing numbers.
But thanks for continuing to being pointlessly confrontational/snide in your responses. Really helping to diffuse tensions.

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Originally Posted by Suzuka196

i apologize if my question confused anyone. i was asking more about brand-new tanks, in brand-new gear, fresh sastasha, etc. not late game inexperienced tanks... sorry about the misunderstanding

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I blame focus groups. Corporations love focus groups, but focus groups are bad for gaming. They get a bunch of people in there who have never played a video game in their life, sit them down in a game with no instruction, like say a complicated mmo, then surprise surprise they all conclude it's too intimidating. Most of the people in focus groups have little to no actual interest in gaming. So as a result of these groups they dumb things down and dumb them down and dumb them down some more, primarily early game content to the point a brain dead quadriplegic monkey could do it.

It should be no surprise then that people who aren't brain dead find this content incredibly boring. People who are less patient and more vocal start taking it out on pretty much anyone who is in the group with them. Thanks to dailies they practically force people into dungeons below 60, which are all mindnumbingly boring thank to changes in the game and you end up with a bunch of people who really don't at all want to be there but are pretty much forced to in order to level characters. It's a recipe for problems.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

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Imposing performance expectations on others isn't group mentality. You may have like-minded people in the group but 'majority wins' isn't group mentality either. 'Everyone gets thru this' is.

I had to call BS on your comment that having someone claiming to be new to tanking at Holminster Switch was laughable. Because I've been here since HW and I've tanked 0.05% of that time. So I'm new to tanking. I am an unsure tank and I will go at a slower pace that I know I can handle. Its not a jab at anyone else's competence but my own and just as I don't get to dictate how anyone else performs their role so long as they ARE performing it, then I'm sorry but no one gets to do that to me.

If you don't like my pace or my tanking then I'll understand a kick (even though thats so stupid--just melt stuff faster now that the healer can focus DPS but whatever) but if you try to wrest control of the dungeon from me and try to do my job--enjoy that.

Not that you would but defending this mob mentality stuff is a big step towards that. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

I had to call BS on your comment that having someone claiming to be new to tanking at Holminster Switch was laughable. Because I've been here since HW and I've tanked 0.05% of that time. So I'm new to tanking. I am an unsure tank and I will go at a slower pace that I know I can handle. Its not a jab at anyone else's competence but my own and just as I don't get to dictate how anyone else performs their role so long as they ARE performing it, then I'm sorry but no one gets to do that to me.

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If someone chooses to skip the literally dozens of learning dungeons and dive straight into high level content, they're not so much new but wanting to be carried at the expense of the group.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

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Thank you for at least not throwing a snide response in there. But a serious question.
If you're so unsure of your tanking abilities that you feel the need to perform as such, why not spend some time in lower level dungeons and work your way up? That's what I did when I was uncertain of my tanking abilities to ensure I wasn't a drag on others. Perhaps I just have a hyperactive need to not be any sort of a burden on others, but if I felt I wasn't up to snuff of certain expectations I won't touch content until I felt that I was.

I will admit that maybe such a hyperactive need does perhaps give me higher expectations of others than what you all consider reasonable. I wouldn't try to wrest control of a dungeon from someone as that tends to lean towards lessened group cohesion, but after a certain point shouldn't some increased standards be expected to be met? I don't think it's that unreasonable in the slightest to expect a tank in the third expansion of this game, at level 71, to at least be considered experienced.