Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

So what proof does SE have to take the ads down from pf

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They don't need any. GMs and the STF need proof, but that's only because of the rules set for them.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

SE cannot just go nope you are selling stuff for rl money based on hunches

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Yes they can. They can say they've become aware of the loopholes being used for account piloting and real money sales and have decided to no longer allow content selling listings in the PF. They haven't done this so clearly they are allowed.

Remember they had proof of harassment going on in Feast and they would have proof of harassment involve parsing, yet Feast chat was removed and any mention of parsing puts you at risk.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Parsing can be openly talked about without repercussion in any setting that does not allow harassment

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Absolutely not. How do people still not get this? If it's against the ToS, if you get reported for it and if SE has proof, you will be penalized.

Pretend that instead of the current number of ads, there are about 50, all for services that accept real money and worded as they are now. Either nothing changes and RMT is allowed if kept to outside channels, or SE decides to do something, but if they did, what stops them from doing something now?

Well for those wishing to know. I decided to ask one "Ask for details in Discord" here is the result. Green is me, not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.
https://i.imgur.com/kcPlhA1.png

They blocked me as soon as I said too much. Just to make it 100% clear, I have never bought a clear nor plan too, simply asking for the sake of information.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Well for those wishing to know. I decided to ask one "Ask for details in Discord" here is the result. Green is me, not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.

They blocked me as soon as I said too much. Just to make it 100% clear, I have never bought a clear nor plan too, simply asking for the sake of information.

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Thank you, brave hero. I suppose when a tier is fresh the price is aimed towards whales and lazy Dubai oil barons.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

"Please can we discuss payment terms on discord so that we as a group, including people who are not in game can contribute to the sale" - Who are we to say this isn't happening, there is no evidence either way, and if there is then it IS reportable.

Basically your argument comes down to "because they have said this, I assume that they are doing something suspicious. My suspicion is highly subjective, taking into account bias and preconceived ideas of clear purchases, but I don't have any evidence that what I think is happening is actually happening". Of course there is always a chance that you are right, but your solution sets a precident on what people are allowed to say or do within the game.

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Yeah no, if a group is selling for gil they would have established prices before putting up a party finder in the first place, you are making excuses for RMT.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Well for those wishing to know. I decided to ask one "Ask for details in Discord" here is the result. Green is me, not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.
https://i.imgur.com/kcPlhA1.png

They blocked me as soon as I said too much. Just to make it 100% clear, I have never bought a clear nor plan too, simply asking for the sake of information.

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Case in point, thank you, no one saying they have to discuss payment terms on Discord is selling for just gil, there any many other examples of this on Reddit as well. I have a feeling people who don’t want to ban PFs that are demanding people go on Discord to discuss payment are RMT themselves.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

simply asking for the sake of information.

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It's not a matter of whether the sales are for real money, but whether the sales are being advertised in the PF using bots or multiple people with access to the same account.

Virtually all listings are for real money, are for gil but where the gil comes from doesn't matter or involve account piloting. Listings that are strictly carries for clean gil are a minority of a minority. Compare the number of that last group of players that would be affected by a prohibition on all content sales with the number affected by Feast chat removal and the inability to openly discuss parses. Insignificant, no? If SE had a problem with it, they would do something, but they don't so they haven't.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.

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Yeah you wouldn't be able to post names but at the same time the info would assumed to be fake by the GMs and STF lol.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Yeah no, if a group is selling for gil they would

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Arguments like that always have a response to them and only serve to reinforce that real money sales are allowed if kept to outside channels. In this instance, you wouldn't list gil prices because having interested parties contact you gives you a better chance to convince them into buying and it also prevents competitors from undercutting you, not to mention some groups price match or offer deals on multiple purchases, so listing a price wouldn't do any good.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I have a feeling people who don’t want to ban PFs that are demanding people go on Discord to discuss payment are RMT themselves.

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The beauty of FFXIV's rules is the group contacted in that image can come into this thread, claim they're a group that only sells for gil and groups that sell for real money are a rarity that is being overblown and if Alpha tried to point out they were the ones contacted, Alpha's post would be removed and nothing would happen to any of the members.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Yeah no, if a group is selling for gil they would have established prices before putting up a party finder in the first place, you are making excuses for RMT.

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I'm not making excuses for RMT, I'm explaining why SE will never do anything about it. I have said repeatedly that you are most likely right, but the burden of the proof is still on the accuser no matter what my opinion of your accusation is.

Even the above evidence image isn't absolute proof. It is so easy to falsify an image like that, I would simply have a conversation with a friend and get them to write that out. I am absolutely not saying that, and I am in no way calling AlphaFox a liar, but the point is that it is not absolute proof. That is why SE uses their own ingame chat logs and doesn't accept screenshots in their reports, as only one of those is absolute proof.

As I said, stepping outside of the game also steps outside of the ToS, in both punishment and protection.

But I want to pay 1mill gil for that clear I can't do myself! Why should I be limited in PF for those offering?
That being said, it would be nice if there was a separate "For Sale" category. Maybe when Circles comes in a future patch, it may direct them more to those than Party Finder.

Trust me I had a feeling of the idea that it could be faked, no one really knows if I talked to the person (due to forced censoring) or if I made it up with an alt account or a friend.

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Originally Posted by JWag12787

But I want to pay 1mill gil for that clear I can't do myself! Why should I be limited in PF for those offering?
That being said, it would be nice if there was a separate "For Sale" category. Maybe when Circles comes in a future patch, it may direct them more to those than Party Finder.

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While that would be nice, unless it puts them at the top of the PF search like the Expert or 50/60/70, they won't use it.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Well for those wishing to know. I decided to ask one "Ask for details in Discord" here is the result. Green is me, not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.
https://i.imgur.com/kcPlhA1.png

They blocked me as soon as I said too much. Just to make it 100% clear, I have never bought a clear nor plan too, simply asking for the sake of information.

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I think the fact that you asked 800 or 8.00 was the thing that got you blocked to be honest as I am 100% certain you were not there to legit buy a run at that point, and so were the seller as well...

But no one here doubts they are selling for IRL currency. However, SE needs to PROVE it, not by necessity because laws enforces it but because of the horrible PR nightmare it would give them if people came out and told stories about them getting banned despite doing nothing that was a banworthy offense in the game, and could back their claim up with proof while SE could not back their ban up because they don't have access to Discord's chatlogs.