Can any team comp clear?

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Quality goal post moving there.

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And with this, I proved my point. It has nothing to do with being left out of PFs or Statics. Its the fact that people wants the class they are on to do the most damage because they expect a personal DPS class to always go up on the top, without having to worry about a utility jobs potential to exceed them in rare cases if they are awesome. BOOM!

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Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

And with this, I proved my point. It has nothing to do with being left out of PFs or Statics. Its the fact that people wants the class they are on to do the most damage because they expect a personal DPS class to always go up on the top. BOOM!

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I provided statistical information on why your argument is... childish, and you completely dodge it. I'm not sure how this proves anything for you actually. You wanted a party that is only 4 out of 210 possible groups. Only one of said groups would even utilize the fact you have a dancer properly to its intended function. Sorry ninja isn't the REQUIRED JOB anymore lol. Honestly out of all the jobs you're whining about, only ninja needs a mild buff. Emphasis on mild.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

I provided statistical information on why your argument is... childish, and you completely dodge it. I'm not sure how this proves anything for you actually. You wanted a party that is only 4 out of 210 possible groups. Only one of said groups would even utilize the fact you have a dancer properly to its intended function. Sorry ninja isn't the REQUIRED JOB anymore lol. Honestly out of all the jobs you're whining about, only ninja needs a mild buff. Emphasis on mild.

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When a person finds out there is no holding point for them to win an argument, they instead go over to the phase called personal attack, and will start to call the other person names. Sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

When a person finds out there is no holding point for them to win an argument, they instead go over to the phase called personal attack, and will start to call the other person names. Sound familiar?

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I insulted your argument, which is not a personal attack. Actually I messed up, i forgot you actually also excluded sam lol. 1/70 chance of that party being made by pure luck. 1.4% chance.

Your argument is because a party formation that only has a 1.4% of forming (that completely misuses the dancer's purpose) hasn't cleared titan, that it must be impossible to do so.

It was you who dodged this fact when pointed out to you, and it was you who is grasping for any hope of not being in the wrong here by accusing people lol.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

I insulted your argument. Actually I messed up, i forgot you actually also excluded sam lol. 1/70 chance of that party being made by pure luck. 1.4% chance.

Your argument is because a party formation that only has a 1.4% of forming (that completely misuses the dancer's purpose) hasn't cleared titan, that it must be impossible to do so.

It was you who dodged this fact when pointed out to you, and it was you who is grasping for any hope of not being in the wrong here by accusing people lol.

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I did no such thing. I simply used your argument against me to your own train of thought, and instead of being adult about it you started to personally attack me.
If Utility classes got the treatment they should. and have the posibility to do a bit more total dps(as in personal combined with the dps gained by party from your utility).
We would then have a small percentage chance of a NIN/SMN/DRG/DNC party to form. That is in your own calculations, do mind. Then again there will again be put another variable called.. they have to be VERY GOOD so... thats another 1/100 chance x 4. But wait, for those buffs to still be better than a pure DPS you also need to account for the 2 tanks and the 2 healers to bring high DPS for their class too. so thats another... 1/100 chance per person to a total of.... 1/100 up'ed in 8. So... How much of a chance will there be for the utility classes to actually deal more damage than a personal DPS class if you tune every DPS up to the spot where the utility can compete with pure personal DPS? Hmm? The chances are astronomical.

So, thank you for proving my point and giving me more data to do this.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Job strength aside, the raw statistical chance of that group forming is rather slim. That's a 2/105 chance if the party just randomly formed, out of all the 210 possible combinations of 4 unique dps in a party. 1.9%.

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I think that is correct for a particular combination. However, I believe your math requires that jobs are allowed to repeat which means it allows for groups like NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN or DNC/DNC/DNC/DNC to form which just isn't realistic. A lot of PFs enforce no dupes for difficult content (Savage, EX, etc). So for calculating permutations you might want to say that a job cannot repeat once selected. If we do that I think the number of permutations becomes 35 and thus the odds become 1/35 for any particular, no repeat, randomly formed combination.

7! / 4!(7 – 4)! = 35.

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Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

I did no such thing. I simply used your argument against me to your own train of thought, and instead of being adult about it you started to personally attack me.
If Utility classes got the treatment they should. and have the posibility to do a bit more total dps(as in personal combined with the dps gained by party from your utility).
We would then have a small percentage chance of a NIN/SMN/DRG/DNC party to form. That is in your own calculations, do mind. Then again there will again be put another variable called.. they have to be VERY GOOD so... thats another 1/100 chance x 4. But wait, for those buffs to still be better than a pure DPS you also need to account for the 2 tanks and the 2 healers to bring high DPS for their class too. so thats another... 1/100 chance per person to a total of.... 1/100 up'ed in 8. So... How much of a chance will there be for the utility classes to actually deal more damage than a personal DPS class if you tune every DPS up to the spot where the utility can compete with pure personal DPS? Hmm? The chances are astronomical.

So, thank you for proving my point and giving me more data to do this.

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The primary difference is, my math is rooted in logic, and actual known values. Yours is... entirely speculation on what you want to believe as long as it will support your argument. If I'm wrong, show me where you get these exact values.

And again, we've already seen what happens when utility jobs provide more than a pure damage job, for a very... very... long time. Pure dps jobs become irrelevant. Utility jobs should get more use out of buffing a high personal damage job, not 4 utility jobs jerking eachother off. We don't need another stormblood, we don't need another last half of heavensward. Let the game progress. Sorry if that means you wont be a required job in every composition anymore, but that's how it should be.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

1.4% chance.

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a small percentage for a Personal DPS job to not get a party if it happens.

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Originally Posted by Kejara

I think that is correct for a particular combination. However, I believe your math requires that jobs are allowed to repeat which means it allows for groups like NIN/NIN/NIN/NIN or DNC/DNC/DNC/DNC to form which just isn't realistic. A lot of PFs enforce no dupes for difficult content (Savage, EX, etc). So for calculating permutations you might want to say that a job cannot repeat once selected. If we do that I think the number of permutations becomes 35 and thus the odds become 1/35 for any particular, randomly formed combination.

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10 dps jobs, 4 total dps

10!/[4!(10-4)!]

This accounts for duplicates. 210 dps combinations of unique dps jobs

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Originally Posted by CrashofZenki

a small percentage for a Personal DPS job to not get a party if it happens.

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not an argument.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

10 dps jobs, 4 total dps

10!/[4!(10-4)!]

This accounts for duplicates.

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You're right. I counted in my head and somehow came up with 7.... I wonder whom I left out. Sorry.