When do the training wheels come off?

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

They didn't use Flare either, so don't know why you're going on that tangent with OP, when obviously the BLM didn't know what to do.

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Ok lol? The OP is still spreading misinformation about a job while insulting other players for not knowing said rotations. I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

Oh, I wish to GOD that you could just inform these neanderthals what they're supposed to do and they would listen. Anyone who tries regularly to do so knows that you are, a majority of the time, either met with complete silence and inaction, or hostility and defiance. Every time I give out advice and it is actually taken is an occasion: I take screenshots, I tell them how good they've done, I make sure to tell everyone I know, I write it down in my diary. People do not listen to you in this game, especially if you do not preface your advice with a novel about how what you are about to say is not a personal attack, and how they should brace themselves for the worst possible outcome: mild embarassment or discomfort. And it is not like I am deriding people whenever I give them advice: I give it in the most neutral, unoffensive way possible. Nor am I imposing any "strict standards"; at least if using cooldowns, intended rotations, or having appropriate gear are not considered "strict standards". I don't care if you sit on your GCD for a bit, or if your rotation isn't perfectly executed each time, or if you get hit by mechanics or whatever; I just want an effort to be made.
That being said, sprouts are better than most in this regard, and they only get better the fewer jobs they have leveled, and the fewer jump potions they have bought. They are the most likely to listen to something you have to say. I wish the same could be said of some "veteran" players who put on the burger king crown without the slightest idea of how to play the game in a way that isn't grating to the anywhere from 3 to 23 other party members that were unfortunate enough to be matched with that person.
Jump potions were a mistake. You should not be allowed to buy them unless you already have another job at that level. Either that, or you should be put through a simple duty that teaches you how your class even works before you're allowed to purchase the potion.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I do think that this is part of the issue, for sure. For a lot of people FF XIV is their first MMO experience. Imo, it's SE's fault for not giving people a proper explanation of their jobs/roles. Hall of the Novice should be a requirement before anyone is sent on their way through the MSQ. And even then it doesn't teach anywhere near enough as it should.

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This. My god, so much this. Don't even let them into Sastasha without having completed their role quests. At that point, it can at least defuse all this "maybe they just don't know" talk and force some culpability on the new players. They've already added a "put best gear on" button. How much simpler do you need to make it for someone? The one caveat I'll give is they should autoequip soulstones for all the classes that aren't scholar/summoner.

Edit: I should add that along with the soulstone bit, they remove all the base jobs from all gear below lv 35. Once you're past trial account cap, you must use your job restricted gear. And I thought the best gear button was fixed so it didn't suggest DoM equipment for DoW classes and vice versa.

Regarding the lev 30 job announcement thing, it was there at least in the early 2.x patches. Yes. You saw one.

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Originally Posted by Silfar

If you only have 1 class shouldn't you know the ins and outs of the class.

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No. That's far from a requirement to play the game. People can even complete savage without knowing every tiny detail of their class, and without being carried. Nevermind normal mode or msq content which demands far far less. You certainly don't need to be an expert on any class to do the casual content.

The people who can truthfully claim to know every single scrap of information about their class and understand it instead of just parroting what a theory crafter is saying, is actually incredibly low. Why? Because it frankly isn't necessary to have this much information or understanding to complete the majority of the content in the game with ease. Most decent casual players do not have even half this knowledge and they get on fine.

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Originally Posted by Silfar

I am by no means a perfect player but I wonder about some of these "new" players. Trying to level up ninja, running leveling roulette, end up in garuda 4man. Get a level 44 gladiator yes gladiator. My ninja has more hp. His gear is a mix of caster, dow gear and 2 tank pieces all below level 35. Tank runs in can't stay still and all 4 party members are taking turns tanking.
Takes 2 attempts to finish and when we finish I get on to the tank and the healer jumps in cause hes new.

Square has made the game so much easier giving messages to do job quests, not requiring leveling a second class to unlock a job. How does one get a tank that high and be so bad.
Thats 2 primals and about 7 dungeons he got through to unlock the fight. So they either got carried by a high level friend or "nice" party members and when they should have been kicked and taught how to play the hard way and or found a game more suited to them. So what is the cut off for "new".
This also leads to fun on things like expert roulettes in AA I was healing and got a ninja and a black mage who could only single target and not use half of their kit. Ninja most used huton and 1,2,3 combo only aoe in about 2 fights. Black mage only used fire 4, no flares, 1 thunder 4 maybe 1 foul not even any fire 2s.
I get people are "new" and am willing to help if I can but you can only help the willing, and covering for their faults instead of calling them on it only makes it worse in my experience.

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You absolutely cannot escape new, bad or unknowledgeable players unless you cut yourself off from the environment where you can meet them. No matter how many safety nets, tutorials and skill walls a dev team puts into a game, there will always be players who will fall through the cracks. If this bothers you enough to make a post complaining about it then I suggest you completely stop pugging any content or go play a single player game. Pugging is lottery and you're not always going to win.

I understand your frustration but if you expect everyone who mains just one class to have very intimate knowledge about it then you're asking for way more than most content demands. Which is unreasonable.

With all that said this does not mean I don't think SE should introduce more ways to filter out players with bad gear or poor combat skills. For example I think every dungeon in the game should have an ilvl requirement. I also think there should be a second more advanced novice hall that players would be required to complete. But I do realise that even if these were introduced everyone who pugs would still come across bad players. Someone always falls through the cracks. Everyone needs to accept this, and if they cannot...then stop pugging.

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Originally Posted by Silfar

Get a level 44 gladiator yes gladiator.

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This sounds more like it was a bot. They don't do quests and just use roulette to level. So they never get their soul stone.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Yes, I don't think it's enough to guarantee that every last player gets the message and correctly understands it, even if they aren't just especially stupid or lazy. To accomplish that, they'd likely have to make class and job quests required for the MSQ, impose stricter job and class requirements on low level gear, and add ilvl requirements throughout the leveling portions of the MSQ. It's easy to sit here and be indignant because how dare anyone not figure everything out immediately, but people come to this game from vastly differing backgrounds, which will affect how they interpret what is shown to them. Many players probably will assume their gear is good enough so long as they continue to succeed. Likewise, since the gear does impose some restrictions on even the lowest level gear, the absence of that on other pieces might be understood as tacitly endorsing it for all classes. Class quests may seem like an only somewhat important side quest that can be done at their own leisure. There are plenty of ways ordinary people with limited or no experience with this genre could end up doing things horribly wrong that do not require there to be any particular deficiency with them as people. You'd have to be quite foolish to think otherwise.

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Oh i dont think they have a deficiency. Just that theyre lazy and dont want to read. Even if the playguide (which the game reminds you of every time you log in until you turn it off) werent a thing, all the active help pop ups are there, and tbh all the gear given to you like candy+ equip best gear button should equal a half decently geared player.

The pop literally says "doing the class quests will give you new abilities" what part of that sounds optional? This was also my first mmo, but even i got the memo "hey, jerk, do your class quests."

After 30 levels you should have the very basics of "i should improve my gear and do class quests" at any point after that being kicked for wearing gear so far below your level (or strsight up the wrong gear) shouldnt be a surprise.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Ok lol? The OP is still spreading misinformation about a job while insulting other players for not knowing said rotations. I'm not sure what the point of your post is.

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Pretty sure their point was more like "not only were they not using Flare, they weren't even using Fire II" as in they weren't trying to AoE at all. They weren't suggesting that Fire II was a good option, just that it would be better than nothing and they still weren't using it.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Sometimes you just get unlucky with drops. Maybe that was the best gear he had for his spec. Given the presence of a "recommend" button on your equipment panel, I don't see any other explanation.

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The recommend function often gives bad recommendations for low-level tanks.
Reason for that is that it primarily looks at your mainstat when deciding which piece of gear to recommend, so for tanks it will always recommend the usable gear piece with the most VIT.
Pre-level 50 non-tank gear provides just as much VIT as the tank gear, and all of it can be used by tanks.

Sounds like a bot.

Thanks for all the responses. I didn't mean to start any arguments. Had a string of horrible duty roulettes and needed to vent.

Its just I research my job/role and try my best not to waste others time.

I dunno when I started I got my butt kicked by titan, caused 3 wipes in one party, fortunately a smn picked up my slack. Tank told me I sucked, he was right, I always try to improve via videos forums etc.

Like with the blm yeah I know your not supposed to use fire 2 after 68 but I didn't know that til it was discussed in this very forum. A little reasearch and effort to perform your role enough is all I ask. Level 80 dps not aoeing not a terrible issue when the tank pulls small but 99% of the tanks I meet pull wall to wall as it is expected at max level. In lower level areas if a tank or healer is under geared or underperforming it can make clearing near impossible.