Monk new abilities talk, kind of discussion, thoughts so far?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i'm not sure i did seen the same than you.... yes the loose of internal release is kinda hard, but howling fist was replaced by enlightment that can be used whenever you have 5 chakra stack, that are far easier to get with the new trait... (70% on critical weapon skill)
we did get +40% of damage from the fist of fire + GL or 4th GL...
with 4th GL riddle of fire reduce our attack speed only of 5% was is not that bad for the damage boost get.

no the monk did get a solid up with this expansion... and with gear later our attack speed will be unmatched by any other jobs. even sam get a boost of 12% (instead of 10%) and still will be left in dust by monk in terms of speed.

but i'm still concerned by tornado kick role with this new balance for the monk.

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OK how can i say this, you may think enlightenment is good but think this trough for a sec, befor we have a chakra dump and a free oGCD (HF), now we have one one chakra dump and no free oGCD, now you may argue but we get so much more chakra stacks because of the new mediation (70%) and you know what that actually sounds nice untill you realize that was nice if IR was still there, which means unless under BH you are not going to get a free, every 60 sec oGCD but a maybe if we crit enough oGCD that is less powerfull that the one we already had (FC), so unless MNK overall crit chance when trough the roof, its kind of pointles.
This is not counting the new 80 ability which slows down EVERY SINGLE GCD, why? MNK are mean to be fast, no? why we have 2 skills that go against that is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I can't believe they had the audacity to say they listened to the community and fixed Monk to make it fun. They made it even worse than it is now.

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Yeah like i said on another post, this feels like the natural progression for MNK... in 2.x not 5.x

As I stated, the earlier, the kick refresh the gl, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be used before a fight transition.

You're left with 2 possibility as after you tossed it before the phase : 1) no attacks during the phase, you use the meditating for 30 seconds as it freeze and keeps them high, it also freeze your form if I read it well. Then re apply demolition.
2) transition has shit tons of smalls attacks or one big. You riddle of earth as it doesn't change your main stance get the reduced damages from RoE and a refresh of your GL

RoE is still weird to use, but by no mean, useless.

For IR disappearance, well, with monk crit being its main sub stat, the speed of the attacks, and seeing how we often crit even outside of IR, I'll wait before judging on it. Steel peaks was meh.

Loved howling fist but new one sounds more reliable than our good old 60s howling fists

Sorry on phone, my only issue lies on, tornado kick, they're giving us so many new tools to keep and save our stacks, yet, TK is still around...

I don't think six sided star is for big transitions I think it's for times when you have to run out of melee with the boss for mechanics like dropping an aoe away from boss. Anatman is for transitions.

I like the changes for the most part but I still hate tornado kick. I think it should be disconnected from greased lightning.

I would probably have the weapon skills useable in any form but you only progress the forms when done correctly so if you dragon kick in raptor form you lose form. I would add another buff that stacks from snap punch/demolish/Rock breaker. Losing form loses your stacks. Tornado kick would eat those stacks and the more stacks you had the stronger it got.

I feel like what monk is missing that other jobs have is building to something.

We just get to gl 4 and then try to stay there. Because tornado kick isnt worth going back to gl 0.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

I don't think six sided star is for big transitions I think it's for times when you have to run out of melee with the boss for mechanics like dropping an aoe away from boss. Anatman is for transitions.

I like the changes for the most part but I still hate tornado kick. I think it should be disconnected from greased lightning.

I would probably have the weapon skills useable in any form but you only progress the forms when done correctly so if you dragon kick in raptor form you lose form. I would add another buff that stacks from snap punch/demolish/Rock breaker. Losing form loses your stacks. Tornado kick would eat those stacks and the more stacks you had the stronger it got.

I feel like what monk is missing that other jobs have is building to something.

We just get to gl 4 and then try to stay there. Because tornado kick isnt worth going back to gl 0.

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Here is the thing after some thought, MNK in its burst window is hitting pretty fucking hard, around 85% extra potency (40% from either GL4 or Fof, 30% from RoF, 10% from TwS and an extra 5% from BH) so in that window BS Goes from 290 to 536 non crit and every other skill around the same (This is kind of a lie since ideally you are always under either GL4 or Fof and TwS so its more of a 10% extra increase from CURRENT burst window if am being honest but hey 85% sounds nice,no?) and there is SsS (Six-sided Star) here is the thing, it is a weaponskill that means it scales with our Sks so at base with just the 20% from GL4 it goes down to 3.9 sec still pretty high but if we add ours gear Sks, well we are looking at a very different number and while yes it will still be most likely slower than a normal GCD, consider this in current content average MNK GL3 GCD is about 2.04 sec if it ends up in that same area its not that bad...maybe. It also depends on FC procs (to keep a MNK bussy meanwhile) so being super optimistic in a normal Full rotation (so 6 GCD) we could theoretically use one FC, making it a Dps gain over A 60 sec HF, again super optimistic. In an 8 man the opener would be pretty neat, if RNG is on your side (and party comp is optimal).

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Originally Posted by reyre

Here is the thing after some thought, MNK in its burst window is hitting pretty fucking hard, around 75% extra potency (40% from either GL4 or Fof, 30% from RoF and an extra 5% from BH) so in that window BS Goes from 290 to 507 non crit and every other skill around the same (This is kind of a lie since ideally you are always under either GL4 or Fof so its more of a 10% extra increase from CURRENT MNK if am being honest but hey 75% sounds nice,no?) and there is SSS (Six-sided Star) here is the thing, it is a weaponskill that means it scales with our Sks so at base with just the 20% from GL4 it goes down to 3.9 sec still pretty high but if we add ours gear Sks, well we are looking at a very different number and while yes it will still be most likely slower than a normal GCD, consider this in current content average MNK GL3 GCD is about 2.04 sec if it ends up in that same area its not that bad...maybe. it also depends on FC procs so being super optimistic in a normal Full rotation (so 6 GCD) we could theoretically use it once, making it a Dps gain over A 60 sec HF, again super optimistic. In an 8 man the opener would be pretty neat, if RNG is on your side (and party comp is optimal).

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I'm not trying to imply monks need more dmg. I'm suggesting that the tornado kick as it exists is uninteresting and that currently monks build to a plateau with greased lightning and stay there. we should want to and be incentivized to expend that build up to start over again. But we don't we just do the same thing over and over. Now we have less to do then we did before. We will do our positional dance and we will use elixir field and forbidden chakra maybe we will six sided star from time to time and anatman for phase changes but that's it. It doesn't go anywhere. I have felt like the job was missing the natural end of the rotation for a long time. I thought it would be tornado kick when heavensward came out but it wasn't. This feels like more of the same to me. We have alot of tools but it doesn't go anywhere it just exists.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

I'm not trying to imply monks need more dmg. I'm suggesting that the tornado kick as it exists is uninteresting and that currently monks build to a plateau with greased lightning and stay there. we should want to and be incentivized to expend that build up to start over again. But we don't we just do the same thing over and over. Now we have less to do then we did before. We will do our positional dance and we will use elixir field and forbidden chakra maybe we will six sided star from time to time and anatman for phase changes but that's it. It doesn't go anywhere. I have felt like the job was missing the natural end of the rotation for a long time. I thought it would be tornado kick when heavensward came out but it wasn't. This feels like more of the same to me. We have alot of tools but it doesn't go anywhere it just exists.

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You kind of missed my point but whatever... For what i gather what you are proposing is no different than a chakra bar, and we already have that so it wont change game play that much if anything at all, it would be equally as "pointless". Besides you are not sugesting you are saying that TK is pointless because it simply is not worth it DPS wise, if it were like a 1000 potency would it feel better to use? So you dont really want a change in gameplay per se, you literally just want a change in potency or so it would seem, so you are kind of implying that at leats, that MNK skill needs to do more dmg for the resources spend on it.
Besides what should be the natural end? a resource spender that does significant dmg? Kind of like the midare setsugetsuka? or what are you proposing because your previous idea was no diferent from adding another bar with no "natural end of the rotation" and kind of making it just 1-2-3 the same rinse and repeat until you spend the stacks you gained...sounds familiar?
Besides MNK has always been about maintaning GL stacks, that is its natural end of the rotation, TK was weird concept since the begining.

I like the monk changes. GL4 is awesome, anatman and full aoe rotation are handy. Howling fist is gone but replaced by fancier howling fist that is usable more often in aoe situations (I know people are upset at losing the free potency it gave since now it's shared with Forbidden Chakra, but that potency will be made up elsewhere). I see a lot of people grumpy of six sided star (oy vey!) but it's a situational move and not one you'll be spamming, so the long gcd is not an issue in my opinion.

I never had an issue with riddle of fire's slowdown, really you should get used to it after doing it so often and now it'll be a bit faster in GL4. Tornado kick is still there, meh, but it'll find it's uses I'm sure.

After monk staying mostly the same since 2.0 aside from gaining OGCDs and losing dots, I'm interested to see how GL4 will change the flow of our base combo. You may be able get away with delaying demolish to every 4th and twin snakes to every 3rd, keeping dragon kick every 2nd for the bootshine buff, assuming they don't change durations.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

I like the monk changes. GL4 is awesome, anatman and full aoe rotation are handy. Howling fist is gone but replaced by fancier howling fist that is usable more often in aoe situations (I know people are upset at losing the free potency it gave since now it's shared with Forbidden Chakra, but that potency will be made up elsewhere). I see a lot of people grumpy of six sided star (oy vey!) but it's a situational move and not one you'll be spamming, so the long gcd is not an issue in my opinion.

I never had an issue with riddle of fire's slowdown, really you should get used to it after doing it so often and now it'll be a bit faster in GL4. Tornado kick is still there, meh, but it'll find it's uses I'm sure.

After monk staying mostly the same since 2.0 aside from gaining OGCDs and losing dots, I'm interested to see how GL4 will change the flow of our base combo. You may be able get away with delaying demolish to every 4th and twin snakes to every 3rd, keeping dragon kick every 2nd for the bootshine buff, assuming they don't change durations.

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My issue with monk is that the things they changed didn't need to be changed and the things that NEEDED to be changed stayed the same pretty much. Why do we need the riddles? Why do we still have the fist stances when you're more likely gonna be in one 90% of the time? Why can't wind or fire be a passive buff that is always on and make TK actually useful? But that's just my opinion, I'm staying hopeful monk is still fun but I'm also leveling a sam juuuuuuuuust incase I don't like monk at 80 :c