Ive no faith in SE/Yoshi-P when comes to balancing healers

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I do hope they go over Healers more in depth come May.. Not just show abilities but explain what they plan on doing moving forward with the role. They really need to take that time to explain themselves and open up.

I am really tired of reading the "Just wait until such and such date." "Please look forward to it."

Some of us have just been waiting. If OP and other players don't have faith then I don't blame them at this point.

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OP is honestly just here to complain, post non-sensical WHM reworks, and spread misinformation that AST is getting nerfed into the ground (and insinuating that AST deserves such treatment, judging by their tone). I understand being tired of waiting... but there’s absolutely nothing constructive to anything they post. And it doesn’t serve much purpose other than to rile themselves up, to be honest.

They’re crying over spilt milk before they spilt it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm unaware of any rebalancing of tanks.

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They actually mentioned rebalancing tanks and healers for Stormblood:

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Twinfinite: Some players were upset that there wouldn’t be any new tank or healer jobs with the launch of Stormblood. What would you say to these players to make them feel more at ease?

We wanted to revisit our existing tank and healer jobs and make sure [we’re doing] what can we do to improve their player experience and what can we do to tweak the balance so that it’s not as stressful for the players that do prefer to play as tank or healer.

https://www.tale-ffxiv.com/boards/to...tails-3-16-17/

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They did make adjustments to DRK, and it is actually a pretty damn good tank in all content and is a very engaging job to play with monstrous AoE capability.

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Which took them 2/3 of this expansion to acknowledge and finally somewhat fix.

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I feel they've done a damn good job with all three of the tanks, which definitely has allowed for GUN to enter the game. If that is indeed what you want to use to add fuel to the "skepticism" fire with balancing healers.

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Ostensibly, sure. But it's hard to look at something like this and think we've achieved "balance":

https://i.ibb.co/5c9z5JV/Capture.png

There are still WAY more people playing WAR or PLD than DRK.

Conversely, healers are a bit more balance overall, but there's still an obvious favorite:

https://i.ibb.co/K6F4rHs/Capture.png

So they took SB to fix tanks and healers, and they managed to get 2 tanks and 1 healer right. Performance wise, yes they all seem to be fairly equal - or at least balanced with their utility - but it doesn't translate to how many people are playing the jobs. We can't just look at performance, we have to consider whether the job is actually desired. DRK doesn't seem to be, and SCH takes the cake.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

They actually mentioned rebalancing tanks and healers for Stormblood:

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As I said in my previous post, I was unaware of any rebalancing of tanks, but was aware that they wanted to work on DRK and also previously worked on PLD. We seem to be on a eye to eye level when it comes to their adjustments. Fact remains that the relevant matter is that they have worked on the tanks to have them in the spot that they are in right now, which again serves in their favor when it comes to adjusting the healers if we indeed want to use their attention to issues and how they address them. This isn't helping those who wish to argue that the devs are incapable of fixing gameplay, balance, or aren't listening to their subscribers.

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Which took them 2/3 of this expansion to acknowledge and finally somewhat fix.

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Subjectiveness of "somewhat" aside, they DID fix them didn't they? So now tanks are getting GUN.

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Ostensibly, sure. But it's hard to look at something like this and think we've achieved "balance":

https://i.ibb.co/5c9z5JV/Capture.png

There are still WAY more people playing WAR or PLD than DRK.

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Ok, so? Is this data representative of solo play, dungeons, alliance raids, NM trials and raids, PoTD/HoH? Or only where the meta exists? Looking at the data you provided, parses are the least relevant when compared to Score and Max, which are more indicative of the balance the devs aspired to obtain. Even if DRK parses where in the 20k range, what we could gather in terms of balance would remain the same. While I'm not the unfair type to dismiss the concern of the lack of parses from DRK, the data is still inconclusive, unfortunately.

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Conversely, healers are a bit more balance overall, but there's still an obvious favorite:

https://i.ibb.co/K6F4rHs/Capture.png

So they took SB to fix tanks and healers, and they managed to get 2 tanks and 1 healer right. Performance wise, yes they all seem to be fairly equal - or at least balanced with their utility - but it doesn't translate to how many people are playing the jobs. We can't just look at performance, we have to consider whether the job is actually desired. DRK doesn't seem to be, and SCH takes the cake.

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We also can't just look at parses. Read the other threads here, listen to what other healer mains are saying and Yoshi's comments. The consensus is that healers are far from balanced. WHM is desired. Why do you think throughout SB some WHM players have felt so neglected, pruned, and have become bitter towards the AST job? They have voiced their frustrations time and time again, and those stem from the seeds of desire.

I can go outside of the healer meta when it comes to desire and bring up BLU. How many parses are you seeing for them? Are you going to tell me that this job isn't desired as well based off of such data? No one can deny how much so many players want to be able to use this job in normal duties. Again, desire feeds frustration.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

TLDR: Whm may be the worst healer atm but it has never reached ast's lowest point it is perfectly usable in any content its just unfortunate the devs took to overbuffing ast & sch and not consider how much it would upset the balance of all 3 healers

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I think that the closer WHM was of this was 3.4. At that point, AST had been buffed left and right. Many issues 3.0 AST had been solved, while WHM had one simple, but very important problem: MP. The worst thing that can happen is a healer becoming OOM. And I remember that everyone was talking about MP eficiency (what motivating them to use Cure Imore often than Cure II).

The result was obvious: this time, the healer who was locked out of the parties was WHM. And I think that many WHM that had played at that time still have PTSD due to that time.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

I really don´t get the "its so unbalanced" argument.

From all the MMOs i played, FF14 has by far the best job balancing. Every job can be played at Endgame.

Also in FF14 you have the ability to play every job with 1 charakter. So you are a for example Tank main -> if you are playing high end things you will most likely have every tank leveled anyways. If the meta is so important, just use the "best" Tank job.

If every job should do exactly the same damage/utility, then every job would just play the same.

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The imbalance comes from WHM having no distinctive advantages over the other two healers. They can't shield like SCH and AST, and they cannot provide any utility like SCH and AST. They also bring the least amount of rDPS when compared to the two. What they do bring such as sustained healing, nigh infinite MP pool and reduced CDs are negligible at best because neither SCH or AST need these in order to perform their duties all the while providing the afore mentioned into a raid.

Healer gameplay is also attributing to this imbalance. Core issues such as the low healing requirement, barrier/HoT dynamics, and the flux of ogcd heals are huge contributors to this issue and healer mains and the devs are aware of it. And it's because of these things why many are expecting healers to be nerfed, but best not to jump to conclusions.

When we look at healers on an individual basis, the issue is nowhere near as prevalent. They are still fun to play, which is going to be the only thing some players will care about. But when we compare the three together is when the issues stick out like a sore thumb. You see how high and mighty SCH is; how over-tuned AST has become; and how far behind WHM is.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Ok, so? Is this data representative of solo play, dungeons, alliance raids, NM trials and raids, PoTD/HoH? Or only where the meta exists?

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I pulled the Alphascape logs in particular because they are the best estimation of jobs being mained by dedicated players. For example, I only run 24-mans and dungeons on MCH, most people I know don't run on their mains in 24-man. And dungeons don't usually get uploaded. "People I know/play with" is obviously a limited group and anecdotal, but evidence to base an opinion on none the less. My point isn't to ascribe what other people do on jobs they merely have capped and run with occasionally, but that I don't feel that looking at the numbers from those other encounters represents Main jobs being played. For the same reason I did not look at post-Echo numbers, because people now are more willing to play jobs they hadn't. I think the Alphascape logs are the best indication of jobs being mained, and since it's a higher level of play we will see the differences between job desirability play out. I'm not trying to claim it's the most conclusive dataset, but it's one of the main sources of player data that we have access to.

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The consensus is that healers are far from balanced. WHM is desired. Why do you think throughout SB some WHM players have felt so neglected, pruned, and have become bitter towards the AST job? They have voiced their frustrations time and time again, and those stem from the seeds of desire.

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I wasn't trying to say healers are balanced now, only that they are more balanced than tanks overall, but there is still a glaring concern over the desire for SCH. But I don't agree on WHM. They've been the bane of tank aggro since Neo Exdeath. I was pugging god Kefka back then and had a WHM that tanked the entire 1st forsaken phase until Trine. I just let them tank, they finally popped Lucid when they ran out of MP at the beginning of trine phase lol. One of my current healers absolutely hated AST, could not stand it whatsoever (he may have not even had it fully leveled), and would only play WHM or SCH. We cleared this tier with him on SCH and later on got one of our other friends to join who was a SCH main, so my former SCH had to switch to either AST or WHM. He had no idea how to even play AST and know he's playing it anyways, almost exclusively. So, I can't agree that WHM is actually desired.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

I think that the closer WHM was of this was 3.4. At that point, AST had been buffed left and right. Many issues 3.0 AST had been solved, while WHM had one simple, but very important problem: MP. The worst thing that can happen is a healer becoming OOM. And I remember that everyone was talking about MP eficiency (what motivating them to use Cure Imore often than Cure II).

The result was obvious: this time, the healer who was locked out of the parties was WHM. And I think that many WHM that had played at that time still have PTSD due to that time.

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Yea even then it was able to function as a healer you just had to start being more mp conscious about it. Agreed this was the patch that made ast kick whm out the door for not being meta enough i am still baffled to this day about that balance buff and how long it lasted (partway through SB like really SE you never saw that as a problem for that long)

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Actually no I don't, and I've been playing for three years. Please explain.

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They told us the same for stormblood with tanks and now look who plays drk, like 10% of the tank players in hard core raids as first choice. Rebalancing means either totally trash one of the 3 tanks/healer or trash all because they have no clue what to do. Look at heavens ward the start, no Astro for ages and then they buff Astro to shit. I remember when there were two noc Astro parses on a8 s for around half a year and diu wasn’t better. The same with nin in arr to bring more options or in short bye bye monk, hello trick attack. There is no good handeling with “rebalancing” or options it’s either a complete wreck or some jobs are decent and the other ones are crap and don’t forget the favorite jobs from square aka sch and war, didn’t took them 2 patches to make both of these really good. Whm sucked all the time and they buffed it close after the last raid tier with azzise and Aggro reduce like WOW

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

They also had a horrible track record with regards to BRD, but Stormblood BRD turned out fine. More than fine, actually. I don’t see the need to worry until the changes are actually announced and I can see for myself how it may impact the jobs.

Ah, but I forget. That sort of practice isn’t allowed here!

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Yes because the job scales with the best stat in game and gives the best stat 3 % for free and mch plays like shit and my fc has a mch main we all call him unicorn and even he says it plays like shit. So there isn’t any good option really. But now we have dancer so that could work well.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Yes because the job scales with the best stat in game and gives the best stat 3 % for free and mch plays like shit and my fc has a mch main we all call him unicorn and even he says it plays like shit. So there isn’t any good option really. But now we have dancer so that could work well.

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If you read what I said, I wasn't referring to Stormblood BRD but Heavensward BRD, which went from absolute garbage in 3.0 to completely broken in 3.4. Compare it to ARR BRD, which was actually nerfed because it was too strong at launch, but which played wonderfully and didn't have casttimes. There hasn't been an expansion yet where BRD wasn't radically changed (but hopefully that stops because, as I said, they got SB BRD right).

I'm also not talking about MCH, even though it was just as garbage in 3.0 and just as broken in 3.4. The way it plays in 4.0 is trash - I'm already not a fan myself of the job, but at least leveling HW MCH was better than leveling it in SB - but they've addressed that they plan to fix it. So we'll have to just see what they do.

Also, it's 2% Crit; not 3%. And that's not why SB BRD is the best iteration of the job that BRD has seen over the course of FFXIV 2.0's life, nor is it the Repertoire mechanic. It's the way the job plays: smoothly, while actually incorporating its songs into its rotation and not costing it 10% personal damage to actually support its party members.


Not sure what you're trying to say, if I'm being honest.