Stop putting everything unique in PVP/Eureka

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

(PS: I very much prefer rewards to be PVP than Eureka. Anyone can PVP and get Wolf Marks, even if you lose the match, but not everyone can access the latest Eureka map AND have luck with the drops on top of that).

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Not to mention the worst PVP maps take at most twenty minutes to complete and if you do one a day for your dailies you can get the items you want within a week. It's not the best system but it's doable for most of the playerbase and doesn't require literal hours of mindless grinding like Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Not to mention the worst PVP maps take at most twenty minutes to complete and if you do one a day for your dailies you can get the items you want within a week. It's not the best system but it's doable for most of the playerbase and doesn't require literal hours of mindless grinding like Eureka.

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There's also moments of calm in PvP, where you can put yourself on autorun, stretched your fingers, taking a gulp of water.


In Eureka you're probably dead by the time your fingers pop.

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Originally Posted by OSR

I was waiting for your standard reply ^^
The main complain here is: "If people are not engaging in this sort of content, then you should just cut the losses and redirect development time into types of content you see players actively engage in."

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/bow :) You knew it had to come!

I can agree with that complaint, though. I do wish the dev team would understand that continuing to push/bribe people into doing content they created isn't really a good long-term retention strategy -- especially when there's pages and pages of feedback on what would get those players interacting with that content.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that everything should be available on the marketboard. For example, many people who were unlucky with getting the Night Pegasus from Palace of the Dead bought it on the Marketboard. No big deal, right? Maybe they didn't want to do POTD or didn't have the time to do dozens of floors. If you see someone with it, you don't think "wow, that person got to the upper floors of POTD!"

This way, people who do savage, PVP, Eureka, Diadem, whatever can make some considerable gil by putting the mounts on the MB. It would also create a much-needed "gil sink" for players who don't have a lot to spend that gil on outside of housing and glamour. Just like at a theme park, you ride the rides and play the games you like best. This is a game, you should play the content you enjoy and for everything else, there's the marketboard.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I agree with this sentiment.

As much as I dislike Eureka, it's not a problem to put rewards behind it. There are rewards behind everything in this game, some you like, some you don't.

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If they put rewards behind dungeons for example you only have to do that dungeon and not all the other ones too. Also since people have the roulette or need to do the dungeon for story you have more people getting it, thus selling it on the MB thus probably getting it cheaper. Also you can wait and just unsynch it an expansion later. PVP is also still fine if its buyable with wolf marks and not a reward of each season. Because one is limited in number and time while the other can be slowly worked torwards to. Thus wolf mark items are still okay because one daily PVP will get you the item no matter if you lose or win.

But Eureka is a whole other beast. If they put a mount in the last one, a person needs to level through the whole three other parts before they can even attempt to get it..that alone is a huge time sink. Then on top of that the drop is purely RNG and sometimes even depends if someone is even able to spawn a certain NM. You also need to do this when its relevant or you will have a big problem on getting there. There is also no way to unsynch this in the next expansion.

And if you dont want to do Eureka then you might not get it at all. Some are not tradeable at all and those items from Pagos like the minions often costs way too much.

So PVP is imo still fine with wolf marks simply because you can work towards this on your own pace and you have a goal that you can reach with a certain amount of runs since you have a minimum amount of marks that you get even with a loss. At the same time you can level up other jobs, your pvp rank and get more progress to a lot of achievements. And that is with maybe 30 minutes a day, so something even someone can reach, that barely have time to play.

Dungeons are a bit more RNG, but still its only one dungeon you need to do, depending on which one it is, you can also level up jobs, you can even unsynch them, and each run itself will help you towards other goals too be it stones, glamour, exp and other things.

Eureka needs a huge time investment depending on where the item drops (so lots of playtime to even get there), depending on the participation number you might not even find a group to level and do stuff (which means you might only be able to do the challenge log.) and at the end of all of this you might never ever see the drop because RNG can be utterly cruel. I mean I had people with thousands of loot boxes that never got the mount while others got it with their second one.

So I agree partially with the OP. Less items in content like Eureka, that is too closed of from other content and that need too much investment to get somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Eureka seems really popular to me the new zone are very full.

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Its the release week of the content and please dont forget that these 144 people are those from the whole datacenter. So it would be really sursprising to not have full instances.

About buyable from the MB: Yes and what will happen in the next expansion? You cant unsynch this content thus if nobody sells items anymore then how would you be able to buy them?

As was commented up above, i definitely agree that this feels like a desperate move to try and get people into Eureka content.

Yesterday I was toying with the idea that MAYBE I can grind my way up (level 6 in Anemos) in order to try and farm some items. Spent about an hour in Anemos, didn't gain a level, and have decided - NOPE! I'm good not having these things.

Now, I'm sure I was doing something wrong. The NM train party I joined ended up splitting off to clear some challenge logs (seems they were killing mobs too high for me and so I got no credit). But it initially took me about 15 minutes to get an invite in the first place, so I wasn't overly eager to leave in the off-chance they were moving back to NMs soon. When I tried killing on my own, I died. Twice. lol. So yeah, it's just not going to be for me.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I agree with this sentiment.

As much as I dislike Eureka, it's not a problem to put rewards behind it. There are rewards behind everything in this game, some you like, some you don't.

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The only bad part about Eureka is that the items are behind 3 levels of RNG.

RNG: Will monster mutate?
RNG: Will mutated monster drop a box?
RNG: Will box drop said item?

Can you imagine if you needed to win the lotto that you had to correctly guess the randomly generated numbers 3 times in a row rather than once?

For folks talking about SE using tempting rewards to "force" players into unpopular content...

Seriously, listen to yourselves. ALL content should have unique and interesting rewards. Just because there's a piece of content that you don't care for personally that happens to have a reward you want, does not mean that content should be an exception. Any piece of content SE adds to a game, they expect and want to be successful. They aren't going to add content and say, "Almost no one will like this, so let's make the rewards so bland that even the few folks who DO like it will question why they even bother!"

Eureka and PvP DO have enthusiasts, and those enthusiasts are as entitled to cool and unique rewards as enthusiasts of other content are.

I think they saw how everything dropped to worthless for the Anemos items (They miscalculated the drop rates, probably didn't think people were going to get so many boxes/crystals and that they ended up so easy to get - probably why it was a pain to open them all and Eureka didn't release with a shatter option) Anemos stuff was probably a bit too easy to get.

For Pagos, they attempted to force everyone to level one way (grinding mobs) and they designed the drop rates around that. Only problem is, a lot of people still didn't level the way they wanted to - drastically reducing the amount of cold warped that players were producing overall and making everything even more rare. They overcompensated for Pagos trying to make sure the loot didn't become junk after a week like the Anemos stuff and ended up on the other extreme of nearly impossible to get because a lot of people just straight up gave up and refused to grind the boxes.

This time a lot of the lucrative stuff is locked behind bunnies, which is not as bad as the dumb tier 2 boxes. (It kills off some layers of RNG) Once people get to max level, bunnies get easier. I'm actually surprised that even Pagos bunnies give 10-25k gil on bronze/silver. That's a lot of money for barely any work once you have mount and can move around the map at max level without getting killed every 5 seconds. The problem is, people are still stuck in Pagos trying to get access so the supply is even lower. Pagos unfortunately is still a slog and gross.

Best of both worlds would be each bunny box gives you a token to turn in for most of the stuff that can be found in the boxes or something - so there is a cap on the amount of boxes you have to do to get a certain item but still leave the actual drops in there. Just make the turn-in ones untradeable so you preserve the value of the regular MB tradeable one. They could even just give the zone boss token another use.

I get why they want to have something to keep the players happy while they slave away in the Eureka mines, but I kind of have to agree that it is pretty sad that the little side rewards, the garnish, has been fully committed to that content. Why not let more crafting stuff drop in dungeons and then have people craft it? You have a perfectly fine crafting system and do nothing with it. Or maybe new rewards for GS?

Honestly, it makes me remember the days of ARR where we got 2-3 new hairstyles per patch for free. Or emotes that were part of quest chains. Or 3 dungeons per patch.

The distribution isn't that bad. Some of my favorite gear is from dunegons and raids (ghost baroque coat of striking, the fuma set from LoA). A lot of dungeons have/had unique minions that you couldn't get anywhere else. There's EX mounts, of course, and there's also a lot of reskinned gear in Eureka.

The only issue with Eureka is the relic weapon being tied to it. The old steps had a variety of things you could do and you could go at your own pace. Not so much with Eureka.