Please fix tank accessories already, it's been 3 patches

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Originally Posted by shao32

this is from a recent korean interview:

Q: Tanks require Crafted equipments much more than other roles. Please increase the value of raid equipment!

A: In terms of development standpoint, I don't think tanks should be able to to output DPS much higher than necessary. But I do however think and understand that players want to output more DPS. I understand that this is a problem right now but if we are to immediately address it, it would end up as if the solution being a forced one rather than ideal. We are always tackling on this issue here so it'll take some time before we can address this.

(Translation note: To prevent misunderstanding, it'd be more accurate to say YoshiP thinks tanks should not have been outputting firepower already higher than what is required in any raid situations, possibly or most likely because he thinks it will blur the definition of what a tank is. He IS however fine with players wanting to do more DPS. The problem he acknowledged here isn't regarding on tanks doing more DPS but more on the problem on the value of raid equipments. However, if any Japanese speakers out there would want to pinpoint the mistakes in my translation, please point it out and it will be reflected. Thank you)

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"Oh no, the least populated role in the game by a massive margin is mildly overpowered. This is the one thing we didn't want to have happen."

Seriously, at this point I think Yoshida just despises the idea of tank players wanting to deal damage. Between taking away the STR/VIT scaling we got in HW, the hilariously gimped changes they received at the drop of SB (remember when WAR stance dancing chopped their meter in half?), the fact that it took 2 patches of shouting and yelling from the community at the start of SB to get even a paltry level of STR on fending equipment, and now he still refuses to just put a bandage on the pentamelding issue until the next expansion at the earliest?

I ditched tanking for DPS during 4.0 because of this mindset, but I'm still upset on the outside looking in. Maybe 5.0 will bring me back, but I'm not holding my breath. I am sick and tired of feeling as though my role is always in the crosshairs, with every change coming out of the dev team for the last 2+ years being aimed directly at stomping it in the throat.

Any hardcore, dedicated tank mains out there, go level a healer. The difference in how much power you have is night and day. It's disgusting how much stronger they are. Even if you don't pivot entirely, I just feel like it's something that needs to be seen.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

Seriously, at this point I think Yoshida just despises the idea of tank players wanting to deal damage.

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It's not even really about damage. If tanks did 500 or 1000 or even 2000 less DPS than they do currently we'd still have the same problem with raid accessories being "trash".

They've said themselves that the best gear should come from raids. So make it happen. It's not like the current situation is "ideal" either, what's the hesitation for?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It's not even really about damage. If tanks did 500 or 1000 or even 2000 less DPS than they do currently we'd still have the same problem with raid accessories being "trash".

They've said themselves that the best gear should come from raids. So make it happen. It's not like the current situation is "ideal" either, what's the hesitation for?

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Yeah, I may have overreacted a little bit with my last comment. The answer in that interview just got me really, irrationally upset.

It's still hilarious though. Boosting savage accessories to have a reasonable amount of STR would add like... what? 200-300 DPS to the tanks, if that?

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

Yeah, I may have overreacted a little bit with my last comment. The answer in that interview just got me really, irrationally upset.

It's still hilarious though. Boosting savage accessories to have a reasonable amount of STR would add like... what? 200-300 DPS to the tanks, if that?

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Yeah, it's almost like if one role starts overstepping into another's, that's a problem or something.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Yeah, it's almost like if one role starts overstepping into another's, that's a problem or something.

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I don't really get what you're trying to say here. If you're trying to argue that tanks shouldn't be focusing on DPSing, you're effectively saying that our tanks have fully complete, fully realized kits at level 30 when their enmity combos are complete and they have their tank stance.

It's obvious that SE's dev team is at odds with how the majority of savage level tanks want to play the game, and I'm hopeful that 5.0 takes steps to unify their two visions for how tanks should play. Hopefully doing so without burning the already scarce few people who already put up with it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. If you're trying to argue that tanks shouldn't be focusing on DPSing, you're effectively saying that our tanks have fully complete, fully realized kits at level 30 when their enmity combos are complete and they have their tank stance

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Someone once said tanks should do 80-85% of the damage a DPS job should do.

Take a a moment to consider the state of the game with that in mind, and now imagine what the game looks like if a healer or a DPS could survive 85% of the damage that a tank is able to, or tanks and DPS are capable of healing up to 85% of the amount healers are able to.

As it stands currently, Tanks range from 60-70% (based on which tank job compared to which DPS job) which is already high. Another 200-300 DPS puts them around 65-75%.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

I don't really get what you're trying to say here. If you're trying to argue that tanks shouldn't be focusing on DPSing, you're effectively saying that our tanks have fully complete, fully realized kits at level 30 when their enmity combos are complete and they have their tank stance.

It's obvious that SE's dev team is at odds with how the majority of savage level tanks want to play the game, and I'm hopeful that 5.0 takes steps to unify their two visions for how tanks should play. Hopefully doing so without burning the already scarce few people who already put up with it in the first place.

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It's purely simple, tanks focus on mitigation and there's no better mitigation than skipping a mechanic because you pushed a phase with high raid-wide dps. The entire meta for this expansion is high dps = more mitigation. You also need to consider that the hardcore player base has seriously improved since HW. I firmly believe that the current game design resulted in where we are crafted gear being near mandatory or better than their max ilvl counterparts.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

Yeah, I may have overreacted a little bit with my last comment. The answer in that interview just got me really, irrationally upset.

It's still hilarious though. Boosting savage accessories to have a reasonable amount of STR would add like... what? 200-300 DPS to the tanks, if that?

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Boosting fending accessories to have similar amounts of STR than DPS jobs would skyrocket tank DPS (that's around 800-900 DPS gain, more than 20% damage gain). 5 - 5.5k DPS Warriors would be the norm and that would get very close to NIN, BRD or RDM amounts of personnal damage at equal skill level (which SE probably don't want to happen).

Already said it, pentamelded are only slightly better than savage raid accessories. You're trading 2000 HP for 1.5% more damage. You probably won't notice it in both cases.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

It's purely simple, tanks focus on mitigation and there's no better mitigation than skipping a mechanic because you pushed a phase with high raid-wide dps. The entire meta for this expansion is high dps = more mitigation. You also need to consider that the hardcore player base has seriously improved since HW. I firmly believe that the current game design resulted in where we are crafted gear being near mandatory or better than their max ilvl counterparts.

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I believe it was the case more in HW than SB. Most of SB bosses are scripted to change phases after a certain time (for example, the phantom train won't go until it has done its cycle of mechanics, no matter if its HP are at 75% or 50%). More DPS means shorter fights, so you don't have to deal with the last mechanics. But usually the hardest mechanics are kinda in the middle of the encounter, not at the very end (e.g. O7S Virus phase, O8S 2nd Forsaken, Tsuku ex Moon phase...).

You're kinda wrong saying tanks focus on mitigation. Tanks focus on damage, their mitigation is currently enough. And gaining 70 DPS from pentamelded accessories won't make the fight shorter than 2 or 3 seconds, which really isn't enough to consider "more damage > better mitigation".

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Originally Posted by Megguido

Already said it, pentamelded are only slightly better than savage raid accessories. You're trading 2000 HP for 1.5% more damage. You probably won't notice it in both cases.

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Why should tanks even have to choose between the two? There's 20 item lvls between savage and crafted accessories. The savage accessories also take more effort to obtain.

Savage accessories (and augmented tomestone ones of the same ilvl) should flat out be better.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Why should tanks even have to choose between the two? There's 20 item lvls between savage and crafted accessories. The savage accessories also take more effort to obtain.

Savage accessories (and augmented tomestone ones of the same ilvl) should flat out be better.

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I agree on that. I was just stating facts: that's how it is right now.

Though savage accessories take longer to obtain (cause weekly lockouts and random loot), it is easier to obtain than pentamelded crafted accessories for me. Crafted are faster to obtain, but require lots of money and lucks for the melds.

The good point is that we can have BiS accessories way before everyone, and we have the choice between a bit more damage or a bit more health. But I have that I have to spend millions of gils and hundreds of materias to get said BiS.