Duty Recorder Forgotten?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's almost as if, with repetition, practice, and effort, these mechanics become simple to dance around.

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obviously not, for all the complaining you lot do about farm parties, which are practiced far more than trials. Now think what would happen if all the game were farm parties for people; that you simply couldn't do any group stuff without having to deal with abandons, people getting kicked, needing to parse everything, needing recorders to see what is going wrong, people leaving after 3 wipes, etc. That's what happens when you ask for casual content to be harder for people. I don't end up offering to switch to tank or healer in a roulette when someone leaves because we all are ok with practice and repetition for 60 creation and 10 mendacity.

The recorder in itself is kind of a thing for JP people, since they generally don't use plugins as much as NA due to language barriers. It's not useful for NA, because either we don't care at all for it or we use third party tools anyways. Thats kind of why people thought it a bit of a waste here, we arent the primary audience. There's going to be some reinventing of the wheel for the jp audience, that can't be avoided.

"You lot." I love being generalized Riyah, I really do. Go on and tell me what a despicable subhuman I am for recognizing patterns, following them, and learning how to predict future patterns from them, which is all fights like Shinryu NM asked of people.

Regarding the recorder, it'd be nice if it was useful in more than one fight at a time. Used to be Byakko EX, now it's O8S. Having the recorder available through all of Savage at the beginning of Sigmascape would have been nice, now it's just a waste to put it on O8S alone. Having it on dungeon content would be a waste because people go to dungeons to get done and get out ASAP. Having them in EX and HM trials would be good, however they wouldn't see much use in HM trials because, again, people often do those to get done and get out.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Gear progression has nothing whatsoever to do with skill or a willingness to improve. Players like have little desire to better themselves and simply want a hand out

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No what they want is rewards that are actually worth it. You can search any number of raiding threads on these forums and find a bucket load of people saying raiding just isn't worth it because the gear is worthless.. that is why they don't bother...

As I said it's human philosophy
What you get out has to be worth the effort you put in or people will not do it. The same is true in virtually every aspect of human life.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

No what they want is rewards that are actually worth it. You can search any number of raiding threads on these forums and find a bucket load of people saying raiding just isn't worth it because the gear is worthless.. that is why they don't bother...

As I said it's human philosophy
What you get out has to be worth the effort you put in or people will not do it. The same is true in virtually every aspect of human life.

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Ignoring all of the ither issues I have with your statememt I just want to know what sort if rewards world make raiding worth it for you?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The recorder in itself is kind of a thing for JP people, since they generally don't use plugins as much as NA due to language barriers. It's not useful for NA, because either we don't care at all for it or we use third party tools anyways. Thats kind of why people thought it a bit of a waste here, we arent the primary audience. There's going to be some reinventing of the wheel for the jp audience, that can't be avoided.

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I feel like you're making a pretty broad assumption with no basis on facts here. I've seen way more use of callout tools and skill timer plug-ins for act on jp streams than i have on NA streams. I'm not assuming they use them more, but the tools are definitely out there in the jp community, and being used by top tier raiders.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

obviously not, for all the complaining you lot do about farm parties, which are practiced far more than trials. Now think what would happen if all the game were farm parties for people; that you simply couldn't do any group stuff without having to deal with abandons, people getting kicked, needing to parse everything, needing recorders to see what is going wrong, people leaving after 3 wipes, etc. That's what happens when you ask for casual content to be harder for people. I don't end up offering to switch to tank or healer in a roulette when someone leaves because we all are ok with practice and repetition for 60 creation and 10 mendacity.

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There you go again with extreme scenarios. The game wouldn't be devoid of easier content if they implemented a better scaling difficulty. What would occur is all those players you mention who cannot get groups would have to improve or stay in content more suited towards their playstyle. Contrary to your belief, raiders aren't kicking people left and right because they can't put up orange parses. Most couldn't give a damn, so long as you're putting forth a good effort. A BLM pulling 3,400 DPS is not a good effort. If your damage is that low, what business do you have learning a weekly o6s page run?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

No what they want is rewards that are actually worth it. You can search any number of raiding threads on these forums and find a bucket load of people saying raiding just isn't worth it because the gear is worthless.. that is why they don't bother...

As I said it's human philosophy
What you get out has to be worth the effort you put in or people will not do it. The same is true in virtually every aspect of human life.

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Worth is entirely subjective. Implementing horizontal progression is not going to abruptly make people care more about Savage if they aren't inclined to partake in difficult content to begin with. Likewise, horizontal progression is largely the illusion of choice. Say they offered five DRG sets, all i370. Theorycrafters will determine which set is mathematically superior and that set becomes the only one people care about. I mean, look at what we have now even with our basic stats. Very rarely do you see a Skill Speed DRG build because it's generally weaker, thus people aren't interested.

Now that doesn't mean they couldn't improve on, admittedly, a very stale system. Frankly, I wouldn't mind exploding what WoW where everything you do has a chance to increase your gear's strength, albeit with less RNG focus. But none of this will make people do Savage unless they want to.

Say what if you could improve geat like wow but using crystals like the eureka ones to improve the gear?No rng on it and it only depends if you want to do it

Like 24 man gear upgreadable this way, could be interesting maybe or heck even dungeon gear

This can be applied to all the gear in the game with the catch of the upgrade becoming more and more expensive as it progresses.

Also they could make that you can do things like adding materia slots to armor and weapons by exchanging some tokens (like the world bosses one for example).

Honestly we kinda have the foundation to do that too they only need to make it real

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

People complain because they're bad and want everything made easy.

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There's another situation that happened back then with Shinryu, people who queued to trial roulette for the quick tomes for 5-8 mins of effort being faced with 40 mins of wiping because other people are incapable of doing easy mechanics, repeat 2-3 times and these people will start leaving the duty as soon as it loads because it's literally not worth the time or effort to wipe with people who have no interest in learning a fight, for just a few tomestones. Those people leaving are not bad, it's just not worth the time/effort to stay with a group that has a high potential to wipe for half an hour.

Back then before the nerf of Steps of Faith it took me 3 really bad runs of people not following directions before I started abandoning the duty as soon as it loaded, I wasn't the only one doing this, this created a situation where most capable players were abandoning on sight and the people who needed a clear couldn't advance the story, and thus they had to nerf the trial or those people would remain stuck.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

There's another situation that happened back then with Shinryu, people who queued to trial roulette for the quick tomes for 5-8 mins of effort being faced with 40 mins of wiping because other people are incapable of doing easy mechanics, repeat 2-3 times and these people will start leaving the duty as soon as it loads because it's literally not worth the time or effort to wipe with people who have no interest in learning a fight, for just a few tomestones. Those people leaving are not bad, it's just not worth the time/effort to stay with a group that has a high potential to wipe for half an hour.

Back then before the nerf of Steps of Faith it took me 3 really bad runs of people not following directions before I started abandoning the duty as soon as it loaded, I wasn't the only one doing this, this created a situation where most capable players were abandoning on sight and the people who needed a clear couldn't advance the story, and thus they had to nerf the trial or those people would remain stuck.

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To be fair, this problems occurs because of poor difficulty scaling. Had Stormblood scaled itself better, there wouldn't be a sudden jump in difficulty, thus people would be better prepared for something like Shinryu. Likewise, the rewards do need to be better. Why the devs think seven tomes or whatever it is will keep people there, especially with learning parties, boggles the mind.

The solution should never be nerf everything into the ground, otherwise we get what we have now: extremely easy content outside of EX and Savage, who themselves are both watered down.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ignoring all of the ither issues I have with your statememt I just want to know what sort if rewards world make raiding worth it for you?

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As I and many others have said many times. People want rewards that feel valuable and worth something and wont just be tossed the next patch.. Even If you take 370 savage gear what really is it useful or needed for? Everything in the game can be easily smashed with gear 20-30 item levels lower than that.. So you don't need that gear for anything current. And it will be trash when 4.4 lands and people can just buy or craft 380 stuff. Or get it from the normal raids. Thus the gear has no purpose or value.. Which is why these topics keep coming up

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Implementing horizontal progression is not going to abruptly make people care more about Savage if they aren't inclined to partake in difficult content to begin with. Likewise, horizontal progression is largely the illusion of choice. Say they offered five DRG sets, all i370. Theorycrafters will determine which set is mathematically superior and that set becomes the only one people care about. I mean, look at what we have now even with our basic stats. Very rarely do you see a Skill Speed DRG build because it's generally weaker, thus people aren't interested.

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In itself no. But you could be pretty certain that if the rewards from said contents were better and more valuable then more people would be more inclined to try. As said before what you get out has to be worth what you put in. Where as now its common to see people say they just wait till they can unsync something or massively over power it because the rewards arent worth doing it now or when it's current.
Do not later when the lower effort required is more inline with the rewards value.

Regarding gear though. It may be true you don't see many dedicated skill speed builds or something but its equally true that many people just don't care for the stats in general.
"Oh my current body is 350 this one is 360 I'll buy and equip it."
What the stats are isn't even considered because I level is the only one that really matters. No one's cares if the 350 body had crit and the 360 has skill speed instead. All they look at is the item level Another reason why gear is cheap , dull and most players still never really invest and meld it.

Compare it to say glamour. Where people will often spend tens of millions of gil on a glamour item or 30 million gil on a pegasus whistle because it's worth something to them. But spend 100k on materia to improve there stats on there gear. No chance. Waste of money.... which is why people often say glamour is the endgame. Because it's the only thing that has any form of value.

Which is why quite a few players will put significantly more effort into getting a glamour piece than they will getting one that is actually an upgrade..