The PF is absolutely pathetic (O7s)

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Well either through naivety or vindictiveness SE listened, and the result was Gordias. Statics breaking on the mini-boss before the first boss (and most of those that survived broke on Living Liquid instead). Raid community disintegrating. Mass migrations to the promised land of Gilgamesh, where all the players are 95th percentile and the clears flow like water.

In large part, the reason savage is the way it is now (since Creator) is because of what happened when SE made "a real challenge".

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Can we please stop spewing this nonsense? The devs have outright acknowledged they didn't test Gordias properly, which contributed significantly to the sheer amount of issues it had with gear checks. Mass migration to Gilgamesh happened due to the lack of cross world PF, which meant your pool for new recruits was decidedly limited. It's no different to Balmung and roleplay. A larger community increases your odds.

Furthermore, the people whining how easy Coil were largely not raiders but people who looked at the World First parties clearing it fast and assumed it was super easy. Regardless, you can make a "real challenge" without going back to Gordias levels.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The devs have outright acknowledged they didn't test Gordias properly, which contributed significantly to the sheer amount of issues it had with gear checks.

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While it's true that the separate-phase testing was an issue, the reason those checks were set so high in the first place was because SE wanted to make savage harder. They said as much themselves if you look at the developer statements from pre/early Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Mass migration to Gilgamesh happened due to the lack of cross world PF, which meant your pool for new recruits was decidedly limited. It's no different to Balmung and roleplay. A larger community increases your odds.

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It's more than that though. Due to the presence of the world first team (and other prominent raid groups), there was most definitely a perception that players on Gilgamesh were better on average than other servers.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Regardless, you can make a "real challenge" without going back to Gordias levels.

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Yes, but SE most likely aren't going to do that in savage. They made Creator easier as a band-aid after Gordias and Midas. They liked the higher clear rates so they decided to continue doing it that way. The challenge content niche is filled by ultimate now.

Savage is puggable; it can be done. But both Deltascape’s and Sigmascape’s “wall” in their tiers is the third floor: until people started overgearing, Hali was awful if you didn’t have a good group, and Guardian is the same. I’ve seen some really competent people in V7S groups, but there are also a lot of bad people in there who think they can just power through without doing the mechanics, and you just can’t do that when you have full 350 with no 360 or 370 pieces.

I would suggest trying to pug Savage much earlier during a reset week: Tuesdays and Wednesdays are usually when people are doing their weeklies, and when you can get decent parties more often than not.