Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Then continue to shut down fellow players "Because devs". How many times did we hear from Devs' "We can't add more housing or inventory space". I know I have heard it for a long time. Look we have more space, more wards (twice as many) and now even a chocobo saddlebag.

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This. We've also been told point-blank that something is either too difficult to implement (not just "for now" but indefinitely) or technically impossible only to later have it added anyways. Something like branched jobs is tangential enough to the game that they can just sit on it for the sake of stubborness if they so desire, but other examples of "it's not happening" have been reversed just fine.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Then continue to shut down fellow players "Because devs". How many times did we hear from Devs' "We can't add more housing or inventory space". I know I have heard it for a long time. Look we have more space, more wards (twice as many) and now even a chocobo saddlebag.

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I'm not downing fellow players, but asking for something they obviously have no desire to do is like beating your head against a brick wall.

Even if they were going to do this, they would only do it for new classes but even then if you look at HW and SB there haven't been any starting classes, they start off as a job at a higher level. Come next exp for new jobs they will be jobs not classes as well and start at 60. To further this point look at how much of this game started off like XI in terms of elements, weapons, etc. now look at how much of the old system is left after 2.0 -very little.

As much as I would like to see more class/job splits and have more options it's not going to happen. if they ever did do it you can come back and say "told you so" and I will acknowledge I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

I'm not downing fellow players, but asking for something they obviously have no desire to do is like beating your head against a brick wall.

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If you're not shutting down other players then why even chime in? "Because Devs said it won't happen". Let them bang their head against the wall. I am still beating my 3.0 PvP skillset is better even though I know it will never revert but at least change will happen if I continue beating my drum. It may not be exactly what I wanted but beating the drum leads to a path for improvement. It could be as simple as "Have Archer to 30" as a prerequisite to unlock Ranger. It is not a dual split but in a lore sense it is branching off of the Archer tree.

The opposite of not shutting someone down is coming up with a way for the devs to do it that is technically feasible and lore relevant.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This. We've also been told point-blank that something is either too difficult to implement (not just "for now" but indefinitely) or technically impossible only to later have it added anyways. Something like branched jobs is tangential enough to the game that they can just sit on it for the sake of stubborness if they so desire, but other examples of "it's not happening" have been reversed just fine.

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Ok, lets say that it is possible. What kind of resources would it take? Would we get less jobs in order to invest the development time into this? Is the payoff worth it?

While the dev team have shown that they can reverse their stances on certain issues, they have also shown that they don't really proactively design content and systems, and I don't really believe that if we were to get another split job that it would be any better.

SMN/SCH was a failed experiment that the devs didn't like, so was diadem, and it was just as bad the second time around. Hell, I'd like them to focus on making a glamour dresser that works as intended before I believe that they can reverse the split job situation.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

While the dev team have shown that they can reverse their stances on certain issues, they have also shown that they don't really proactively design content and systems...

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See, that is precisely what we shouldn't be content with -- content being implemented without forethought. That is why we had the SCH/SMN issues. That is why Diadem was a trainwreck. That is why the glamour dresser is approximately the most convoluted "solution" possible to what could have been much more simply solved.

More than wanting to see any particular issue reverted, I'd like to see XIV stop creating more left and right through the same core failings, and for the community to stop giving them a free pass after x months just because they've gotten used to the unnecessarily poor result.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Ok, lets say that it is possible. What kind of resources would it take? Would we get less jobs in order to invest the development time into this? Is the payoff worth it?

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Who knows but leveling classes and jobs is the most enjoyment i get out of the game. Glamour is the least of my concerns. I am almost going on a year with the same glamour. Different aspects of the game are more important to some than others and we don't equate all aspects of the game as equal worth. I honestly also don't care if they release another Extreme and/or Raid. I would be content if they just release more pvp maps. But again this is just me and we don't equate all things in this game as equal worth.

Which is why it is also frustrating to see players shooting down each other "Because of devs". So lets stop just shutting down other players and if you read my earlier post it doesn't have to be something technically they fix.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

It could be as simple as "Have Archer to 30" as a prerequisite to unlock Ranger. It is not a dual split but in a lore sense it is branching off of the Archer tree.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

snip.

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You might think of it that way, but in reality we're just trying to tell you the devs have no desire to do so. Certain things get implemented or changed but in reality this is something they're not going to go back on. To further the point even more, look at cross skills, they got killed.

MCH, AST, DRK, RDM, SAM are proof enough that the devs have started going the opposite way of branching, they don't want to deal with the whole class/job association anymore.

Now if you want something "constructive" instead of "shutting down" then bring back cross skills, but be of course if we did that people would only go back to wanting you to level said job in order to get said skills and not everyone should be forced into that. oops guess my positive turned into a negative again, so much for that idea.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Would we get less jobs in order to invest the development time into this?

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Frankly, I think it would be the exact opposite.

First, they wouldn't have to create as much skills since the class skills would simply be reused, and second, by branching from an existing class, people won't expect the new job to have a completely different identity, so they also won't have to do as much effort as they need when creating a brand new job. In fact, I'm pretty sure if they'd create a copy/paste of Deliverance-WAR classified as a DPS, lots of people would be pleased.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

To further the point even more, look at cross skills, they got killed.

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Which, for me, would in fact help branching. With role actions, for the same class, you have access to 10 totally different skills simply by changing crystal. Look at my example on page 2. How would you manage to create a DPS branching from GLA if its toolkit was still massively inclined towards defensive skills ? Now that Rampart, Convalescence, Provoke and co are gone, the only purely tanking skills GLA natively has are Sentinel and Bulwark.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

MCH, AST, DRK, RDM, SAM are proof enough that the devs have started going the opposite way of branching, they don't want to deal with the whole class/job association anymore.

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What is a branch? Does it have to be lore? Does it have to have the same base skills? Or does it build upon the foundation the other one set? SMN and SCH were broken IMO for more reasons than the so called balance. To me leveling just the Class leveled both jobs was broken but I can see why they had to do it. Another reason why I could see them not wanting to do a branching job similar to SCH/SMN is you do the quest and you're immediately X level of the class. Which is why they can do it via lore. You level Archer to 30 and you get to unlock the quest. It is the equivalent of doing MCH/AST but is a continuation of the Archer lore without the repurcussions of class balance.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Another reason why I could see them not wanting to do a branching job similar to SCH/SMN is you do the quest and you're immediately X level of the class.

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Would it be very different than starting DRK immediately at 30 or RDM at level 50 ?

I'd rather start each future new classes at level 1 while gaining branching jobs directly at the previous level cap than starting all future jobs at fairly high level.