It's about time the GMs or devs respond to the RMT going on in the PF

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

You can argue, but you'd be wrong. There isn't a "trade for service" function in the game, those are player-made agreements.
The only situation where I've seen GMs intervene in such agreements is when it comes to crafting comissions (when the provider refuses to deliver / scams the client).

It doesn't apply to run-selling - if the game was intended to be played like that, there'd be a bot players could pay X amount of gil to have content completed / earn rewards.
And! There are such similar systems in place already (like trading the weekly alliance raid reward for upgrade parts). The very reason they added savage on the side was so players could experience the story, while others get to participate in more difficult content. What's the purpose of that when you're allowing people to skip that as well?

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So, the game was supposed to be played by having someone else level your crafters for you then? Because run-selling is pretty much excatly like leveling-kit-selling: Someone else does all the hard work, you just collect the reward withour understanding a thing. Why is that okay (as long as no one get scammed) but run-selling isnt?

If people want to skip that or dont want to take the challenge on themselves, thats their choice. No one is "allowing" them to skip that, they're finding a way for themselves to do so. If someone doesnt want that challenge and destroy it for themself: Let them. Why is it bothering you?

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

This is coming from someone who doesn't even do high-tier raiding (or who does so very rarely). I'm not even a part of the players that bust their nuts getting good at the game and completing really difficult content - and even I can see this is a blatant misuse of the system.

But even then, I can stay quiet (even if I don't like it), except groups are now selling this content for actual money.
And even -if- you wanted to do the whole argument of "what about glamour!" well, just because it's also scummy it doesn't make this particular activity any less dirty. Because it is. And the only reason it bothers you is because this is your source of gil.

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The real money thing is wrong, yes.

In game money only? Cant see the real problem with that.

Also... I'm a mastercrafter. My source of gil is selling endgame gear on the marketboard. I got involved in one T9 sell by accident once - someone had asked me to help out without mentioning it was a sell-run. I returned the gil to the buyer as soon as I got it.
I'm not a fan of run-selling, but I can see that raiders need/want to earn their gil just as much as crafters. And if someone doesnt want to achieve those clears by themself, who am I to judge?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I've gotten the impression that the argument "run selling is promoting RMT" is most often used by people who dont like run selling...

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https://imgur.com/a/i8NtK
https://imgur.com/a/v6qps

Again, the info was found within seconds of searching the discord info on Google. That same discord info was used in a pf listing advertising Unending coil sales across the data center with the duty being listed as Expert Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

In game money only? Cant see the real problem with that.

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Still?

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Still?

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I still don’t care about people buying clears of content with money they made legitimately. Why should I? Every challenge in this game is on a straight path to zero challenge. This doesn’t change that fact, never has, and it never will.

I can think of two reasons for wanting to maintain an out-of-game web page for such Pay-To-Win offerings. One, perfectly legit, is to ensure that everyone knows up front the cost for the content carry.

The other, totally against the TOS, is because the price is something other than an in-game currency.

That those PF ads are cross server strongly implies the latter reason is a factor, potentially moreso than the former reason. Put another way - there’s no reason to try to sell someone on a different server a content clear for Gil (or for items, lol) when there’s no in-game means of arranging payment.

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Originally Posted by Tint

yes, expenisve items on the market board promote RMT. housing promotes RMT. and kill sellers promote RMT.

just because there is more than kill selling wich promotes RMT, doesn't make kill selling (for gil) any better in that regard.

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It does however highlight how silly it is to witch hunt run selling when these other sources of rmt are generally accepted and ignored.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It does however highlight how silly it is to witch hunt run selling when these other sources of rmt are generally accepted and ignored.

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I guess their answer is to remove the marketboard, remove housing, Hell with it, remove all Currency from the game. Ban crafters and gatherers too since they have gil, and therefore, must be RMT.

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Still?

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I saw the screenshots in your OP, dont worry.

But yes: I still dont see the problem with run selling for legit ingame earned gil.
I agree with this run selling for real money being a problem - but I wasnt arguing about that but rather against those who dont like run selling at all and are using scammy things like this as an excuse to ban run-selling at all. And thats something I do not agree with.
Again: I'm not a fan of it myself, I never bought a run and I never made gil from selling runs. But I can accept that even people who dont like gathering/crafting need a source of income and that run-selling is just as much a service as selling crafted goods or crafting-leveling-kits (something the person I argued against ironically considers perfectly legit and "working as intended" when one could say "There are no crafting-level-jump-potions on the mogstation, so that has to mean that the intended way to play is to level your crafters yourself")

All I wanna do here is to remind people that run selling for ingame currency is legitimate. You dont have to like it personally, neither do I. But it is something we have to tolerate and to claim that everyone who buys runs also buys the gil to pay for it, is wrong. The argument that run selling promotes RMT is just as right as saying that the Black Pegasus promotes RMT, yet no one argues about removing the Black Pegasus. Or argues to put a cap on item prices (as in: you cant sell item XY for more than 2 million gil) because we accept that its a free market. To me a service like run selling is just as much part of that free market - "But there isnt a 'market board' for run-selling, so it must be wrong!" - There isnt a 'market board' to recruit for FCs either. Or to offer your service als crafter. Or to find LS. Just because its something players organise themsel doesnt make it automatically wrong.

Again: I do not support run selling for real money.
However I do consider run selling for legit, ingame earned gil fine. Yes, still.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

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Fair point...but you have one major flaw.

These guys are selling runs "cross-world"

Which leads to a list of questions...in-game currency transfer is not a thing...and even with whats there is VERY limited.
Same server/world? Ok you got me there..legit yes.
But these "ads" are cross-worlds.

Doesn't look liek they are selling it for real money. But they might do it on discord if the buyer inquire about it, since its outside of FF14 and GMs have no power. Its less worst than RMT spammer that blantly says 1m = 1.5$/2$ with their website.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Fair point...but you have one major flaw.

These guys are selling runs "cross-world"

Which leads to a list of questions...in-game currency transfer is not a thing...and even with whats there is VERY limited.
Same server/world? Ok you got me there..legit yes.
But these "ads" are cross-worlds.

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Oh yes, I know that thats raising a lot of questions - I've argued about this before and I agree with that.

Here is the point though: Unless there is 100% certainty that the answer to those questions involves RMT in some form, its difficult to do something about it. And yes, I've read the OP and know how easy it is to get this proof outside of the game but we all know that GMs cant use that outside-of-the-game-source. And yes, those run-sellers know that too and thats why they're using it. It is a problem, I agree. But the answer cant be to ban run-selling alltogether.
I also dont want the answer to be something like "you may not discuss ingame-matters outside of the game" or "you may not leave a discord info in a PF" because again, just like run-selling, both is widely used legtimate.

Its tricky and all I want to do here is to remind people that some of their easy solutions and obvious observations arent so easy.
For all we know those run selling groups can have alts on every sever they're conducting business and use those to collect the gil. Or the group itself is scattered and leaving it to luck who gets the earnings of their next sell. I dont know if those groups opperate like that, but those would be two answers to that questions aswell - I admit not as good an convincing as the involvment of real money in any form, but... 100% and such.

Back in 2.0 they banned some hardcore crafters who made their gil legtimate. But since they did nothing but crafting and even asked some friends to sell their crafted good on the market board they made a lot of gil - something that seemed suspecious enough to ban them even though they did nothing wrong.
I'm glad that they've gotten more careful since then.

The easy solution for us here is: RMT is already banned, so if you suspect someone using that - report them so the GMs can and will investigate. And if there is evidence lets all hope that they're doing their job.

But in the meantime... leave run-selling alone. You dont have to like it. Just ignore it (just like I ignore ugly Mi'qote in bikinis).