4.05 - Tenacity Vs Non-Tenacity Builds

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

The basic understanding that I have is that even if you want to build for ten, you're better off simply gearing for it rather than melding it (i.e. get all the gear that has ten on it and then meld it with other stuff). The gains you see from gearing for it are okay, but the extra from melding is pretty lackluster, and you're far better off continuing to meld DH/Crit, and simply favoring ten on gear. Basically its inefficient to meld but okay to choose gear pieces around.

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Melding or gearng its all the same. Melds just seem weak for tenacity because they are weak for every stat.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

Melding or gearng its all the same. Melds just seem weak for tenacity because they are weak for every stat.

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Its not the same because you can't get nearly the kinds of gains through melding that you can by simply wearing a piece of gear that has that stat on it as opposed to not having it. This is why Direct Hit melds are so popular, because we get zero of it from gear, making melding it an extremely efficient % increase. Stacking more Tenacity on top of the crazy amount that you'll already have on your gear just isn't going to be as efficient from a DPS or mitigation standpoint.

A minimum skill speed/maximum tenacity gearset has over 1800 tenacity innately. I'd much rather meld direct hit on that than more tenacity.

Edit: In fact, such a build has more tenacity than any other secondary stat, so it could be argued that you'd get more mileage out of anything else other than more tenacity. Not sure if it was intended or not, but the current tier of gear is swimming in it.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Its not the same because you can't get nearly the kinds of gains through melding that you can by simply wearing a piece of gear that has that stat on it as opposed to not having it. This is why Direct Hit melds are so popular, because we get zero of it from gear, making melding it an extremely efficient % increase. Stacking more Tenacity on top of the crazy amount that you'll already have on your gear just isn't going to be as efficient from a DPS or mitigation standpoint.

A minimum skill speed/maximum tenacity gearset has over 1800 tenacity innately. I'd much rather meld direct hit on that than more tenacity.

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If only SE decides to give DH to tanks and healers gear, we wouldn't need to fully meld DH.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

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Eh, cant really argue that much because I've stated in previous posts of my lack of knowledge except say that you can get the gains through melding. On Ariyala I already have a nice setup where I can reach 2k Tenacity on reset this tuesday thanks to melds helping out the gear and keep roughly 700 DH which isnt far from what I currently have with the full DH meld I got going on. I don't mind having 2k Tenacity a just a bit less DH with what my current setup will soon have. So I agree with Dacien, till you can achieve that 1800 you get from the best gear in the game atm, tenacity with a mix of DH is worth it in my book TILL that time where that build is obtained.

Edit: Also why hasn't anyone talked about the damage increase that Tenacity claims to bring along with the other two benefits?

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Originally Posted by Aleisterz

Edit: Also why hasn't anyone talked about the damage increase that Tenacity claims to bring along with the other two benefits?

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Because its bad. If it was better than any other secondary even skill speed in terms of damage, that other secondary would be completely obsolete due to tenacity's additional mitigation effects. Nobody wants Tenacity for damage. And I personally have barely noticed any difference at all between 500 and 1500 tenacity. I personally wouldn't meld any of it because there is already so much of it on your gear that the materia slots you're wasting on it are gaining you probably less than 0.01% mitigation. Its just inefficient use of materia slots.

It just doesn't make sense to meld tenacity when our gear is already swimming in it due to diminishing returns, unless tenacity scales in some crazy special-snowflake way that we aren't privy to.

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Originally Posted by Tufelhunden

I thought tenacity also helped the healing, 7%, in the example above. So by the math used the healer would only need heal the tank for 29000, versus the 32k plus. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

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It only increases Self Heals as of now.
Or, the gained % you get healed more by other players is so miniscule it can't be measured.

OP's numbers are wrong here.

1100 tenacity (the difference between the 2 sets you linked in comparison) does not = "8% damage mitigation"... 1100 Tenacity is exactly 5.5% dmg mitigation, as it's 200 points of tenacity per 1% mitigation.
And it would be at cost of just under 2.5% DPS.

That means, at a very end build, you can either max tenacity for 5.5% dmg mitigation, OR avoid as much Tenacity as possible, and gain just under 2.5% DPS.

Also, SKS does not affect Sword Oath or auto attack speed btw.

if u want alot of tenacity get tenacity gear. Ur melds should be direct hit. And dont forget about crit gear either

So if you want to stack tenacity there are two options imo (ilvl 340 left side, penta melded ilvl 320 right side):

Max tenacity with melds http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11U96
TNC 2022 (7.6%)
DHR 836 (12% = 3% damage)

Max tenacity, but Direct Hit Rate melds http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11U95
TNC 1594 (5.6%)
DHR 1264 (23% = 5.75% damage)

The first tank would take 2.11% less damage while the second tank would deal about 0.76% more.

Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tats_compared/

For comparison, a low tenacity build http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11UFB
TNC 870 (2.3%)
DHR 1264 (23% = 5.75% damage)
DET -117
CHR +76
SS +765

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

It only increases Self Heals as of now.
Or, the gained % you get healed more by other players is so miniscule it can't be measured.

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Saw that after I posted. Thank you for clarifying though. :)