People not rolling in duties - can we do something about it?

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

If something IRL prevents you from rolling, yes: that's why they set it like this. But if you are waiting on purpose then to me it's another story. In the meantime, for example:
1) People might lose gathering nodes (they'll come back, but they might have something else to do);
2) The raid group of somebody could get tired of waiting;
3) Your play-time might be almost finished (so you won't have time to try again, check retainers or do whatever you were planning to do);

It does affect other players, so I don't think it should something accepted or considered ok.. It isn't even a matter of people checking the stats on aryala as they are doing it even now in weeping city for the minions ...

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Sorry to break it to you, but if 5 minutes adversely affects all of that for you. You probably didn't have time to run that duty to begin with. Considering, raids can potentially last 90 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

Sorry to break it to you, but if 5 minutes adversely affects all of that for you. You probably didn't have time to run that duty to begin with. Considering, raids can potentially last 90 minutes.

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I see, but I'm afraid breaking it like this is a bit too semplicistic and incorrect. A gathering node can disappear, so it's not that impossible.
As far as raid are concerned, if I decide to do a quick A10 normal 30minutes before my raiding time I don't see why I should avoid it just because people might not roll? People do this even on HM primal (forcing the rest of the party to stay there until the end if they want the weapon for glamour or desynthesis or company credits). You see how much this trend is spread?

Anyway, I do see your point: you want to exploit the loot timer so you'll have more chance to obtain the loot you are after and you do this because of reasons (and a few of them are understandable and shared by all of us). You have a necessity and you have found a way to satisfy it, still this doesn't mean that your exploit is right or justified.

Furthermore, why should your frustration at the looting system be more acceptable than my frustration at wasting time doing nothing in an instance? Back in 2.X, people complained because the loot system and distribution in 24men raid was bad (people left if they didn't drop what they needed, the RNG was bad and limited because we had only 4 loot instead of 8 etc). Then in HW SE increased the drops to 8 per raid, the RNG is still bad but it's still a small improvement. I guess they need to think of something even for the 8men normal raid like Alexander or whatever will come in Bloodstorm.

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

If something IRL prevents you from rolling, yes: that's why they set it like this. But if you are waiting on purpose then to me it's another story. In the meantime, for example:
1) People might lose gathering nodes (they'll come back, but they might have something else to do);
2) The raid group of somebody could get tired of waiting;
3) Your play-time might be almost finished (so you won't have time to try again, check retainers or do whatever you were planning to do);

It does affect other players, so I don't think it should something accepted or considered ok.. It isn't even a matter of people checking the stats on aryala as they are doing it even now in weeping city for the minions ...

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And how do you tell if someone is afk because he needs to or if he's afk because he wants to? You can't anyway, so why bother?

Those 3 reasons could be used to reduce every trial duration to 15 minutes, too.
I mean, maybe there are people who don't have the time for wipes and need to go raiding in 10 mins, so they can't take the penalty or they have to go to bed soon and still have to do ex roulette to cap for the week, but are stucked with a wiping group in A11.

Tough luck. Don't queue for Alex if you don't have enough time to kill it and maybe wait another 3 mins.

If it helps, just imagine theres someone taking a dumb after each kill.

People keep doing it because it actually works. People will not wait for them and just leave so the chances to win the loot are higher. I've done it a lot. :D

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

And how do you tell if someone is afk because he needs to or if he's afk because he wants to?

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there have been times where the guy who didn't roll was running around, so it was quite clear. Other were spamming emotes or chatting. Also, if it was something from real life it wouldn't happen so often.

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

As far as raid are concerned, if I decide to do a quick A10 normal 30minutes before my raiding time I don't see why I should avoid it just because people might not roll? People do this even on HM primal (forcing the rest of the party to stay there until the end if they want the weapon for glamour or desynthesis or company credits). You see how much this trend is spread?

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ex·ploit
verb
ikˈsploit/
1.
make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).
"500 companies sprang up to exploit this new technology"
synonyms: utilize, harness, use, make use of, turn/put to good use, make the most of, capitalize on, benefit from; informal cash in on
"we should exploit this new technology"

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Exploit has a bad connotation, when it really shouldn't. On the point of whether it is morally correct or not, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

On doing A10 normal or any duty 30 minutes before your raiding time. I would opine that 30 minutes is not enough time. You really need to plan for 90 minutes, and when you've planned for 90 minutes, an extra 5 waiting for someone to lot should not be a big issue.

Sure, in normal situations 30 minutes is more than enough, but what happens when you are grouped with people who can't clear the content and not enough people want to abandon the duty? You are then left with 4 choices.

1) Leave: take the 30 minute penalty, which delays your raid time.
2) Ask the party to boot you. In which case, the question would be: "Why did you que for something you didn't have time to complete?" Which results in wasting the time of the 7 people in your party. I'm certain they also had raids, nodes, rl obligations, etc to consider.
3) Fake a DC, hoping that when you come back 10 minutes later you'll have been vote kicked: You big jerk!
4) Stay until the raid completes, further delaying your raid time.

From your morale stand point only options 1 & 4 are viable, in which case, you have more things to worry about then an extra 5 minutes. Unless, of course, you want to be a hypocrite. Not being able to properly manage playtime is your responsibility, and not the responsibility of your peers or SE's development staff.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

Exploit has a bad connotation, when it really shouldn't.

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We can agree or disagree but you are manipulating things. http://www.macmillandictionary.com/d...tish/exploit_1 | https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/exploit

Also, in gaming industry "exploits" are things that players are abusing of or using in a way that wasn't intended.

Leaving this matter aside, you are focusing on a single scenario. Also, I think that very seldom an all-new party will get even close to 80min if they keep on wiping. On top of this, if I have to spend more than 30min a duty because there are people that have never cleared it than I could be held responsible for delaying raiding time. A new player has the right to clear a duty as much as me. Still, if I'm delaying my raid time because of a few players' selfishness, that's another story.

So, regardless of 3 minutes of my - your - everybody's time being relevant or not, this is a bad behaviour. On a (very) few cases, it has a motivation that can be understood and shared (Alexander's drop are useful and you want to optimize and take the most out of the weekly loot) in other not really (gear dropping from 2.X HM primals).

We can find a way to put up with it or ask for a solution, I'd like to push for this second option. If they found a way to hide gauss barrel from the MCH weapon I think they can even work on a solution that satisfy both you and me.

I think at most, the best possibility would be to reduce the last chest in a dungeon to a 1min timer rather than 5. Then people wouldn't be able to test peoples patience and it wouldn't be as bad. Not sure how hard it would be to implement but something as simple as "These chest are 5 minutes except when opening final boss chest which is set to 1 minute now" Because it makes sense to have it 5 mins on the first few because there is forward momentum but when you get to that last boss/chest there is no excuse as to why people wouldn't be aware of the loot upon completing the instance.

Go into content with my group. Loot I need drops. I disconnect from the servers for unknown reasons. I come back and still able to lot because a fair time window was there to lot on said piece.

There are reasons the timer is there, shouldn't punish others because some people like to exploit it.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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Cutscenes & loading times. With a one minute loot timer if you have the cutscenes, you will quite possibly be scrambling for the loot, not able to check what you need. Someone suggested the person who wins more than one piece being able to choose what piece you then take, so if you get the grand prize you can then pass your consolation prize along to the winner. I think that'd work and stop a decent chunk of folks doing it. I'd only agree with your suggestion if it were possible that you couldn't roll (and thus the timer didn't start) until AFTER everyone had loaded back in post cutscene.