Request - DO NOT delete parry from the game

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Accuracy does scale with all the stats because well. If you can't even hit the target you can't even benefit from the stats. So when you do, you do benefit from the stats.

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I hate it when my heals miss.

Don't worry they are not removing Parry, they are reworking it to actually be desirable for tanks, something they should have done a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Don't worry they are not removing Parry, they are reworking it to actually be desirable for tanks, something they should have done a long time ago.

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SE would have to add kawaii voice telling you "congratulations on another parry Onii-chan!" to make it more desirable than CRIT or DET as a simple dps increase.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Don't worry they are not removing Parry, they are reworking it to actually be desirable for tanks, something they should have done a long time ago.

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I saw some ideas in another thread to remove it from all gear and just add a parry chance and strength to weapons, similar to how shields have a block chance and strength. Either that or they change all content to increase incoming damage so much that we have to take parry in order to survive.

Unless stacking parry becomes absolutely mandatory for survival or the mitigation it gives increases raid dps, it will continue to be dropped in favor of other stats.

Tanks need a trait called Runic, allows them to parry(& block for PLD) magic damage

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

It's because for the first wing of Alexander, there wasn't nearly enough physical damage for it to make a difference, and the main thing that was killing groups wasn't dead tanks, but failed DPS checks and boss enrages. Progression groups needed every scrap of DPS they could find, and that meant tanks running content with 15,000 HP and as much Str/Det/Crit/SkS as they could get their hands on. Simply, the encounters were not designed to require heavy mitigation, and were designed to require higher DPS than the groups could put out at the iLvls they were attempting with.

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Except Midas hasn't really changed. DPS is still incredibly important in progression and helps you mitigate way more potential damage than parry ever will. Even more so than Gordias in many ways.

What has changed in Midas is that while the DPS checks are no longer auto-wipes, they are still soft checks. In progression, you don't have the HP to live through soft checks for very long. Unlike in Gordias where DPS would let you skip mechanics, those mechanics were largely just repeated mechanics. In Midas, DPS lets you skip unique mechanics.

In A5S, you can skip the entire zoo phase and all the positioning and mechanics associated with that. You will never have to deal with the pig baiting, the petrifaction directions, LB coordination, minotaur positioning, etc.

In A6S, for Blaster, you can phase to avoid the second and third tank buster which allows the debuff from the first tank buster to expire during the add phase. The difference is 4 vul stacks vs. 6+ vul stacks overall. You take way less damage with better DPS.

In A6S, for Blaster, you can kill the boss before the second set of charge mirages. Since charge mirages are probably one the mechanics that people are struggling the most with, that's a pretty big deal.

In A6S, for Brawler, you can push to add-phase with fewer attachments and tank busters. Skipping one of the 3rd stack tank busters is probably more mitigated damage than all the damage you will parry throughout all of A6S. With better DPS, you can also phase with 2 Chakrams instead of 3. This isn't a big deal if people have good raid awareness and avoid them but things don't always go that smoothly.

In A6S, for Swindler, if you don't kill the snipers before their 2nd shots, you are going to need some precision shielding or a lot of melded VIT on your gear during progression. Having better DPS = more raid mitigation in this scenario than any amount of parry.

My static is currently still working through Vortexer / Enrage so I can't comment on A7S and A8S, but purely from the videos, those fights seem to fit the same general mold.

In other words statements like this...

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Parry is still the best stat for mitigation (yes, even mitigation-by-damage), but it doesn't feel like a very strong stat, and loses its value in magic-heavy fights and fights with prolonged periods of no white damage.

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...that lack any relevant context are misleading and flat out wrong in practical application. Talk about the effectiveness of any stat without proper context is meaningless.

Which leads me to a passing comment on another issue...

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

It is always a DPS gain for WAR. I thought the community had established that.

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It's not. And, the community established that.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

That's not parry having diminishing returns, that's Crit having incremental returns.

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It's diminishing return with respect to the parry rate you already have. Putting 35 parry points (1% rate) on someone who has 50% parry rate would be less overall additional mitigation than on someone who has 10% parry rate. It's similar to SkS/SpS having increasing return, taking 0.01s off your gcd when you have 2.40s gcd is better than when you have 2.50s. If crit doesn't boost crit dmg, it would definitely has diminishing return as well, since adding 1% more crit rate when you have 50% crit rate would give less relative additional dps compared to when you have 20% crit rate. Basically anything that scales linearly would have diminishing return relative to the amount you already have.

And my prev post about fracture on war was a reference to someone's claim on another thread about fracture being dps and TP loss even for war.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

It's not. And, the community established that.

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Just want to clarify, you're being nit-picky about the word "always", yeah? Not thinking that Fracture on WAR is a DPS loss in general?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I prefer to be called Talathion, but honestly those comments don't sound like me. I actually put time in my posts and make them easy to understand and read. I don't sound or write like a baffoon.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/4d5AxaRW4ZnKE/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

When I play my tank these days I feel like a Shark with all my teeth pulled out. Not being able to deal much damage is extremely frustrating. In other games i've played Tanks usually deal similar damage to tier 2 DPS but lack temp abilities and abilities that weaken the monster.

However in this game DPS just does DPS.

Bards are also just DPS with tiny group buffs.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Strength tanks needed to use cooldowns a lot more then Vitality tanks.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Its a DPS loss;
Its a sustain loss;
Its a TP loss;

Do the math; it doesn't give a stack and doesn't work with combos.

I can put my head in the ground and go: "La LA la la LA!" too; but I am just saying some facts.

Your 300 Potency 80 TP attack kind of sucks; face it. :)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

There is a trait, its called Clemency. It out heals the healer's basic heal.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Developers really don't like the Tank classes. :P

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Skill Speed and Spell Speed are insignificant.

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I could literally do this all day xD

Here's how I think Parry should be changed, to make it a more viable stat (yes, I know some of this has probably been mentioned before...but it bears mentioning again):

Warrior: No change. Reasoning: Warrior isn't really a Parry tank, and Raw Intuition even works against stacking parry by giving a 100% parry rate for its duration. WAR is fine here.

Paladin: Make Parry increase the block rate of Shields instead of its normal effect. Reasoning: Paladins "parry" by blocking incoming attacks with their shield. Doing this right would change the balance of what shield is best in any given situation, but that's probably a Good Thing. :)

Dark Knight: Make it so that whenever they parry, they get a free autoattack (or other "attack" with a reasonable potency) against the target they parried, possibly with a (very short, like 1 sec) internal cooldown. Reasoning: Despite the huge sword, the Dark Knight seems to be more of a "finesse" tank than a "power" tank. The cooldown would be to prevent this from making DRK very OP in AoE situations, but needs to be short enough that (given good RNG) a DRK could, theoretically, proc this attack on every incoming autoattack from a single target.

Thoughts?

--Erim Nelhah