[Suggestion] My thoughts on Summoner

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Honestly I've posted my ideas enough times I'm just tired of posting it anymore. Here is a search you can piggy back from: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...rchid=40172907

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I'll see your search and raise you the (Un)Official Summoner Feedback Thread [3.0 Edition].

Shameless plug (to compile things in one topic) is shameless.

I don`t think that is needed SCH is in a great place good damage and healing and has no need of a rework or to be made in to its own class.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I'll see your search and raise you the (Un)Official Summoner Feedback Thread [3.0 Edition].

Shameless plug (to compile things in one topic) is shameless.

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While we're at it, I might as well add this thread about the subject: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...SMN-a-role-but...

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

No, no it is not ok, because what you want to play is a DoT class like necromancer, red Mage, scholar, arcanist, elementalist. What you do not want to play is a pet class, like summoner, beastmaster, puppetmaster. If you want what it is now, that's fine, for another job, it is not fine for summoner.

The problem with summoner is purely that it is attached to arcanist, basically all summoner's abilities are to do with arcanist and barely anything to do with summoning. Summoner should be taken off arcanist or renamed to something else like spiritmaster or evoker so summoner can be implemented as a full pet job later on.

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So i am pretty sure Ashbury is the one who knows what they like playing, what they like about summoner and what they enjoy in general.

And yes, yes it is ok for them to like these elements about a class they enjoy playing.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Wow the entitlement is real here.

My question to you people is to define "pet class" using standardized laws that say "all jobs that use pets have to perform a specific way in every MMO, and no company is allowed to re-write their design to better suit the image of said job in their head."

FFXIV summoner was designed how SE wanted it to be designed. Don't like it? Simply don't play it. You are not some appointed authority on class design who can go around saying "you did it wrong SE." There is NO right and wrong, there is just choice.

That doesn't mean you have to happy over the design. Fine, you are unhappy. But don't ask for them to change it for players who actually prefer this job. If you want an FFXI summoner, go play FFXI. I play FFXIV for the FFXIV summoner.

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probably the best answer in this thread.

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Originally Posted by newb

Lets begin with the large underlying problem of summons. They are broken, completely and utterly broken. The concept behind having a tanking option for soloing or for backup on an add in a trial or something is nice but really doesn't end up working well in my opinion. The only times I've ever pulled out Titan have been more or less for jokes or in low level content. Titan-egi aside Ifrit is only useful in niche fights also such as SCOB 4 against the avatar where you have an opponent that doesn't move and will not fire off AOE's that will kill him. Now all we have left is Garuda to fill the ranged archetype and is largely overpowered due to her ability to switch targets and keep damage up along with Contagion. This is all pretty common knowledge but there is a reason for it. What other summons could be possibly have that aren't simply copy/pastes of what we already have just with another skin? It doesn't leave you with many options.

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Just a few notes.

1. Ifrit does more DPS than Garuda (yes even when you use contagion properly to extend Tri-Disaster with X-Drac pot+Raging Strikes+Dreadwyrm Trance+Balance), and is generally better to use. It doesn't die to most AoEs in the game either, and is far easier to manage for rouse/spur in larger areas like Void Ark, where you or Garuda may have moved away from each other.

2. Garuda is great when Ifrit does die, the only current fight this happens to me in is A4 - so that is when I bring out Garuda instead

3. I use Titan often for Hunts. You can pretty easily solo full credit by using Titan with rouse/spur/enkindle, as that generates a lot of threat - add that on with tri-d + painflaire/fester/e-drain/deathflare, you can get full credit on hunts that die in under 15 seconds solo.

So personally I play on a controller, I have a pc I just don't like using a keyboard and mouse for this game. Adding in that many abilities is overkill and serves only to bloat an already very full cross bar. I'm not sure of the distribution of players but I would guess it's something like 60/40 pc/console based on the people I play with. So for SE to add any abilities they would have to either be worth it or replace existing ones to keep the class playable for console/controller players. Saying that I do agree that SMN wasn't what I thought it would be but I remember the Xi SMN being a half rate healer with pets that never got used because they were simply too costly. I do like the current SMN and feel that Ifrit Garuda and Titan all have their uses. I for one prefer Ifrit for most fights including Alex Savage due to the Radiant Shield and the higher dmg output that Ifrit possesses.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Wow the entitlement is real here.

My question to you people is to define "pet class" using standardized laws that say "all jobs that use pets have to perform a specific way in every MMO, and no company is allowed to re-write their design to better suit the image of said job in their head."

FFXIV summoner was designed how SE wanted it to be designed. Don't like it? Simply don't play it. You are not some appointed authority on class design who can go around saying "you did it wrong SE." There is NO right and wrong, there is just choice.

That doesn't mean you have to happy over the design. Fine, you are unhappy. But don't ask for them to change it for players who actually prefer this job. If you want an FFXI summoner, go play FFXI. I play FFXIV for the FFXIV summoner.

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I'm sorry but you are 1. A hypocrite and 2. full of it.
This is a thread on the forums discussing constructive ideas and opinions about a class/job we feel is lacking. If you're don't like our opinions then you are entitled to go somewhere else and be unhappy about them.
You are however not entitled to jump into this thread, and tell us that our opinions are unwanted.

I also want to add that your post violates the rules of the forums and if you continue with your harassment, I will report you.

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Originally Posted by Xaeth

I also want to add that your post violates the rules of the forums and if you continue with your slander, I will report you.

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Its not slander. Also melodramatics dont help.

And back on topic. OP, I was like you when i first played summoner. I wanted the classic FF summoner i have come to know in previous FF games; that is a magic based class that does spectacular burst dps. But they implemented summoner differently in this game. I like it, especially with the heavensward abilities they introduced to the class. They could do with making the pets feel more important, but the class really doesnt need an overhaul like some are requesting. Summoner has turned out to be probably the most polarising class in terms of opinion, but functionally its a powerful class. There is nothing really fundamentally wrong with summoner except the tying together of SMN/SCH from the same base class.

I can see where your changes are coming from, but respectfully, i like summoner as is.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

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I'm sorry if I'm being dramatic but in every Summoner Discussion thread I've read, there has been a post which sums up in "Don't like how Summoner is right now? Then shut up or go play another game.", and shit like that don't belong in any forum.
Let's also add that there are people here, including myself, who don't believe that SE will make any changes to Summoner at this point but we like to discuss the idea anyway so the comment that we see ourselves as some appointed authority is straight up BS.

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Originally Posted by Xaeth

I'm sorry if I'm being dramatic but in every Summoner Discussion thread I've read, there has been a post which sums up in "Don't like how Summoner is right now? Then shut up or go play another game.", and shit like that don't belong in any forum.
Let's also add that there are people here, including myself, who don't believe that SE will make any changes to Summoner at this point but we like to discuss the idea anyway so the comment that we see ourselves as some appointed authority is straight up BS.

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Fair enough. I was one of the people way back in 2.x wanting summoner changes, mainly splitting it off from Arcanist base class (or SCH) so we didnt have 2 jobs with a fairly similar playstyle, even though one was a healer the other a dps. They seem to have done enough to summoners new skills in 3.0 to actually give it an identity of its own over SCH, so i am pretty content with summoner where it stands now.