How do these changes fix the issues with Paladin?

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Originally Posted by Renault

This does NOT fix the problems with Paladin. Reducing the TP cost of literally one skill? How will they not run out of TP? They'll have maybe a small handful of extra globals throughout the fight, but does that really fix the issue?

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They also reduced the TP on Shield Bash; now chain stunning isn't quite as draining.

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Paladins do not need a DPS increase, they needed a LOT of work in other departments. TP is one of them, the nature of their stun another. Having a stun that costs massive amounts of TP, breaks combo, AND uses up a GCD? You have a joke of an ability right there. This wasn't that much of an issue in 2.x, but looking at fight design in Alexander Savage, you have SEVERAL mechanics that need to be stunned, and this makes it so that groups bringing a Paladin are severely handicapped.

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Uh. Actually. A lot of us would really like that DPS increase to make us actually competitive with WAR and DRK in a raiding environment. Right now there's just no real reason to take a PLD, and plenty of reasons to take WAR/DRK instead. As far as the stun goes, a PLD is the most reliable class to stun as long as you do it right. Our stun is on the GCD, but it also has zero cooldown aside from that. Do you remember chain-stunning adds in Leviathan EX when that was a thing? It was great in T5 as well. WAR and DRK both have a 20 second cooldown on their stun abilities (DRK's can reset the cd but it's RNG based and can't be counted on).

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I actually NEVER ever had problems with Paladin TP Lol XD

Im really wondering why they did that unnecessary change o__o;

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Based on what you've said about your playstyle in other threads:

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I guess people like you would call me "bad DPS" because when I play as Monk or Mechanic (both ilvl186) I dont ever use those ridicoules small 5% atk "boost" skills. (I call them: blank skills)
...or those annoying positional atks on monk/drg/nin <,< (why we have that anyway...?)

I also dont have that dragoon aura up for the whole time o_O that aura dont boost anything on stats, and those 4th cambo atks are pretty much weak! Only usefull for those 2 Jump atks. ...wich have same CD as the dragoon aura.

minuet/gauss is only for AoE usefull - very weak against 1 target! Its sad people using that skill totally wrong for 1 target =.=


With that "my own gameplay" I still kick asses around. :P
Never had complains in my over 2100 runs so far since release 2013!

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you wouldn't have a problem with PLD TP. It really only happens if you're trying to play the class to its full potential.

Tp reduction and a dps increase. Seems pretty nice to me.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

They also reduced the TP on Shield Bash; now chain stunning isn't quite as draining.


Uh. Actually. A lot of us would really like that DPS increase to make us actually competitive with WAR and DRK in a raiding environment. Right now there's just no real reason to take a PLD, and plenty of reasons to take WAR/DRK instead. As far as the stun goes, a PLD is the most reliable class to stun as long as you do it right. Our stun is on the GCD, but it also has zero cooldown aside from that. Do you remember chain-stunning adds in Leviathan EX when that was a thing? It was great in T5 as well. WAR and DRK both have a 20 second cooldown on their stun abilities (DRK's can reset the cd but it's RNG based and can't be counted on).

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Can't really agree with you here, but I do see where you're coming from.

120 TP, even though it is "spammable" is massive. Also, it being on the GCD means it is a massive dps loss. Chain stuns are not needed in a coordinated group, as multiple classes have OGCD 'free' stuns that are better suited.


As for the dps, my group is close to the clear on A4S and we run Paladin. Our Paladin does great dps, only about 100 lower than a DRK would (but he's still better than most DRK's). That is a large gap if you're doing progression, but I think SE is learning about their horrid dps checks. We don't even have him stun at all in A3S or A4S. It's a waste of TP, and will still be a waste even with this "buff".

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Tp reduction and a dps increase. Seems pretty nice to me.

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Since shield swiping will likely still require a successful block (reprisal is drk's equivalent with parry and is also an "Ability"), it'll be a small upgrade for a main tank paladin on a boss that uses physical damage. As offtank, it won't do anything. Person that said it was a 70dps increase is assuming you can use it immediately every 15 seconds, but they didn't say it won't require a successful block to trigger it.

10 tp off goring blade is not going to be noticed. The shield bash change is nice for people doing A4S probably?

From PvP POV these small buffs seems pretty neat, now i can save 60-90TP after stun-locking but then again swipe is now slightly nerfed in PvP due CD as it means no more 100% pasify locking physical jobs :s

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Since shield swiping will likely still require a successful block (reprisal is drk's equivalent with parry and is also an "Ability"), it'll be a small upgrade for a main tank paladin on a boss that uses physical damage. As offtank, it won't do anything. Person that said it was a 70dps increase is assuming you can use it immediately every 15 seconds, but they didn't say it won't require a successful block to trigger it.

10 tp off goring blade is not going to be noticed. The shield bash change is nice for people doing A4S probably?

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then keep promoting that rook auto-turret of yours ;)

Call me when storms eye is moved off Warrior and given to Paladin instead.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

10 tp off goring blade is not going to be noticed.

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Oh, it will be.

Currently the GB->RA->RA/RoH rotation burns through 570 TP over 22.5 seconds with a GcD of 2.5. In that same amount of time you recover ~450 TP (420 with 7 ticks and 480 with 8 ticks). Which means using the rotation is a 120 TP drain every 22.5 seconds. The TP decrease on GB drops the TP drain to 110 meaning that Paladins will last about 9% longer before they run out of TP.

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The shield bash change is nice for people doing A4S probably?

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We don't know how good stuns will be for the 3.1 content, if stuns can be used to kill NMs and bosses faster/easier then its a significant cost reduction.

What we really need is better AoE capabilities. Flash should deal damage or Circle of Scorn should have a lower CD and reworked. PLD doesn't fit the new direction of the game. It just doesn't. Is it capable of doing what needs to be done? Yeah - but it lags behind DRK and WAR in many ways, especially in terms of utility, efficiency and quality of life. Soloing old dungeons is much, much easier on WAR or DRK because of the AoE capabilities. As a PLD it's quite simply tedious.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Honestly the real issue with the tank 'meta' is that warrior automatically gets a tank spot and it's only DK/PLD that is interchangeable. Well, unless you wanna settle for a sub-par composition.

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Honestly, even DRK might not be much of an option before terribly long with the changes they're making to the Limit Breaks, which will allow two of the same job without penalty.