Can you Devs please pay close attention to pvp dps

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Which again, applies for any class. A competent team/player isn't going to put their battle highs in such a vulnerable situation that they'd get picked off like that. A squishy kill isn't squishy if they're being babysat by a healer, no matter what class it is.

The damage component isn't the only factor (albeit it still is one), but compared to other classes its relatively safe due to it's range, uptime/effective cooldown and the reliability of it compared to those of a melee (which is essentially sticking a hand into the blender) or the other ranged (which either can't be reliably done on the move, has a ranged penalty, or both).

If you were working as a team, then no, a SMN isn't one shotting you. But neither is any other class. That counter measure is not exclusive to shutting down summoner. And just as you keep saying, any other class (not just summoner) will get blown up by focus fire if they're standing off to the side or do not have a healer babysitting them. Between what I just mentioned above and a couple of other mentions, SMN remains one of the most formidable classes to bring into frontlines as of this time for what they can do.

And lastly, you're factoring in playerskill, which honestly has no place in talking about how strong a class is, or balance in general. Every countermeasure you've brought up is not exclusive to countering summoner and doesn't downplay their relative strong-points.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Which again, applies for any class. A competent team/player isn't going to put their battle highs in such a vulnerable situation that they'd get picked off like that. A squishy kill isn't squishy if they're being babysat by a healer, no matter what class it is.

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Maybe I've just been running into some incredibly dumb SMN's... because I'd wager that as high as 90% of my kills since seize came out have been SMN's that, for some bizarre reason, make a sudden dash forward to cast something before trying to run back. I always assumed they had a specific move that has a range restriction or something, because, no joke, every match there's always one or two of them that suddenly get very close to the front lines, and you just have to stun lock them and let your dps brutalize what's left.

I do get what you're saying. SMN's obviously have they're advantages. I'm just saying that I don't see them being anything special compared to other classes, because they can be bled. Yes, that's the same for every class, but SMN, BLM, NIN, and BRD/MCH tend to bleed faster than the rest, and it doesn't really matter to a tank where they are. You can keep your battle high players to the rear all you like, I can still get to them. Give me one healer on my back and that SMN is either retreating, stunned, or dead if a couple dps followed me in. That kind of ballsy dip and dive is not something I'm willing to attempt for just any class, but SMN gets special attention because I know that it will either score a kill or reduce deaths on my end. This is all dependent on team coordination, obviously, but the fact that a SMN has a big target over their heads (made even bigger by their threat base) screams vulnerability to me. Most people are just too scared to go for it.

For the most part, I totally agree with you. SMN's are most certainly a high valued asset to have on the field and a definite problem class to be fighting against. In terms of their skill sets, they are difficult to counter. My only point is that people tend to let that fear get the better of them. The biggest downside of SMN's (common to most casters and ranged) is their gear. Their defense is pitiful, and I think SE was hoping that would be the balancing piece they needed. Strictly speaking, it is, IF you're willing to go for blood. Put it this way, in any other PVP game I've played, SMN's would have been considered a high valued target that most players would focus down simply because they're difficult to handle. That threat would make them a huge target. FFXIV's pvp base are just a bit too timid for that style of combat, it seems. As long as people let SMN's have their way, they will. It's that simple

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'd say that any class that can be solo dps'd down to death by a Tank has more than enough weaknesses. "

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Every class can be soloed by a tank unless the tank is garbage. Being able to kill anyone on a tank class one one one (especially warrior) means nothing. Everyone knows tanks are highly imbalanced in one on one skirmishes compared to the other dps but since frontlines is a team mode anyway no one really takes too much issue with it.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Summoners have literally no weaknesses that are not shared by every single other damage dealer (who all have even more weaknesses in addition).

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lol Smn are the most weak class by far in this game, they have 0 survivability, they are a piece of cake,they dont have any class of shield or seflheal like rest of classes(unless you want to physick yourself for 500hp xD), Except this piece of cake have the best burst by far, Smn are very strong attacking but have very weak defence at same time, plus 90% of summoners out there they dont know how to play well, most of them can only play using macros that only makes them have a poor performance compared to a good smn , im already bored of ruining their macros by a simple purify lol.

indee they are op when used well, but they can be killed really easy, ppl are just too scared of fighting them.

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Originally Posted by Cero0

Tell me a GOOD reason of why they should remov Fever/high battle or LBs.And not bs about a poor monk using his SINGLE LB or someone playing good and having Fever.

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Secure doesn't have High/Fever and works out just fine. More incentive to focus on the objective IMO than to chase down kills crossing your fingers.

And I never suggested removing personal LBs with it. Keep the LBs, they're fine, but I don't see a point in rewarding select players increased damage AND faster LB charging just because they either get fed/are babysat by healers and/or are in a premade group. One or the other, maybe, but both just feels like overkill, and makes it that much harder to fight against.

/shrug, I just feel like skillful/organized play should be its own reward, and not be given a buff to eschew the balance even further. Fever alone has allowed me to pull some pretty stupid stunts in some games and get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Soular

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With the amount of burst damage that's present, BH/BF is a lot more potent this time around. LBs are pretty devastating too whether it be melee to catch people off or casters to get leverage on a node.
...unless you're a BRD/MCH

Usually if you die from a SMN burst you're not being healed (that's your fault for being far away from your healers or just trying to rambo stuff, or healers just being bad). It's fairly easy to get kills on SMN I won't deny it but as mentionned many times SMN is completely defenseless. No manawall, nightwing, aetherial manipulation, or recouperate etc. Melees can one shot their targets with a LB (don't give me the VIT accessories talk I don't even-) so yeah, a caster who can kill people by pressing more than one button being unbalanced? Right.. Nerfing deathflare? A 400 potency skill? Let's start nerfing fell cleave first then, it's a 500 potency skill and it can be used twice in a row!
The funny thing is I'm in a pvp ls and most veterans there do agree the burst is strong but that SMN certainly doesn't need a nerf due to its many weaknesses. People who keep crying over this in forums are most likely people who never even tried SMN in PVP and don't know any better.

SMN has been op since den release. Was powerful in Secure and Slaughter formats. And HW additions only added what it lacked... burst. SMN has it all. Anyone that says otherwise is a closet SMN that doesn't want their job nerfed... not that they really have to worry. SE doesn't pay attention to these forms anyway. Nor do they have any clue how to create PvP, how to test their PvP product, or balance anything sort of sledge hammering something that might only need a band-aid.

in pvp i have 9992 hp summoners burst when he is normal deals up to 5.5K damage which is a lot but healable, but it isn't just that while doing that he's hitting me with ruin 3 which hits for up to 2.7Kand has a 2.5 Sec cool down, oh and he either uses Tri-disaster to dot me to high hell, or banes dots from someone else and those dots tick for a lot of damage quick, most summoners tend to ruin 3 monks to force them to use second wind or recuperate so when they hit us with death flare we have no real recovery.

now if a summoner is on battle high or battle feather, once a summoner is in dread warm trance you're just as good as sitting down opening your arms and saying 'oh sweet death i waited for thee' warriors are the only other class i claim to have a OP skill, fell cleave but unlike summoners who can put meny different debuffs dots and screw you ways the only way a warrior can follow though with fell cleave is with homgang if he has someone there tot are advantage of it. which is easily escapable.

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Originally Posted by JubjubTubs

SMN has been op since den release. .

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yeah....no it wasnt, it was OP when you could have 2 summoners and they could use ressurect, this was removed in 2.15