Why refusing customization is a fallacy

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Originally Posted by Remus

As OP said if you are not raiding it won't matter, when you DF it wont matter you will just continue the dungeon.

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Let me repost this:

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Having unbalanced jobs is bad for everyone. It's bad for the player that likes the job because he gets shunned from most parties, and it's bad for those who don't play the job, because they get stuck with an underperforming job in duties.

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The argument that all jobs play the same is also pretty much a fallacy. Even if you're of the opinion that the current jobs in each role play the same (I disagree) adding specs won't change that, it'll just add more jobs that play the same.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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Sorry but your wording was bad, I read it wrong. You are aware that there already is a certain degree of customisation in place, e.g. a Scholar who focuses on healing will want to prioritise Crit, a Scholar who focuses on DPS prioritises Det and Accuracy, if I'm doing a A2 without a bard I may want to switch out some gear and stack up Piety, then I use the appropriate food to complement this build, e.g. in A1 I use Crit+Accuracy food where as in A2 I eat Piety food.

Early into progression Tanks stack up Vitality, once the mechanics are solid they then stack up Strength to help meet the dps checks. Early in FCoB progression dps melded Vitality into their builds to help survive and play out mechanics in T13, once they were more comfortable they changed their builds to allow for greater dps. The thing is casual players don't need to do these things because Echo does it for them, they just go with the pre set BiS build that progression players have already pre-determined, the same will happen with customisation, progression players will say this build works the best, share it on reddit and everyone will copy once it become available to them.

The game is balanced fairly well right now, because of it most roles are fine for Alexander, yes even Astro's... Yoshi-P is right by saying if we add in more in depth customisation players are going to find set builds and make them requirements for raiding, with this it will be harder for the Devs to balance the Jobs and it will lead to certain jobs being excluded all together.

But were just going to go around in circles now, this argument is old, tired and boring.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Let me repost this:

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You can repost it all you want, it's still a lie.
Since "underperforming" is "compared to something else", you could frequently say that one job is "underperforming".

Back in 2.4, MNK and NIN were better single-target DPS than DRG, so, in a way, every DRG was "underperforming". SMN and BRD were lesser ranged DPS than BLM, so they were still "underperforming".
Back in 2.0, WAR was a lot more weaker than PLD. So, he was "underperforming"...but to the point where clearing content was significantly harder as a WAR. That was a balance problem.

Now, DRG is a better single target DPS than MNK or NIN, etc...

People will still play the job they like, because it's fun, no matter how they perform, as long as they can clear the content. You obviously exagerate my idea by supposing one spec performing waaaay better than the other.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Sorry but your wording was bad, I read it wrong. You are aware that there already is a certain degree of customisation in place, e.g. a Scholar who focuses on healing will want to prioritise Crit, a Scholar who focuses on DPS prioritises Det and Accuracy

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Actually, yes, there is a certain degree of customisation...and it's pretty much only tied to Arcanist. If SCH can focus much on DPS, it's because its class is a DPS one so it has a fair DPS potential.
I really think job branching is an interesting concept, and adding that to other classes would be a first step on customization.

Reynhart, it's not going to happen. Put down the pitchfork and torch. You can argue this until you're blue in the face if you'd like.

But it won't change. This was a backbone decision of the class. Closest we'll get is something similar to how Arcanist works, and Yoshida already expressed dissatisfaction with it.

Put your hand over your ears, deny the reasoning all you want (and by the way, denying is not debunking, let's be clear. You've proven nothing) But this system is here to stay.

It's not a fallacy because every time a game has customizations, the vast majority of players go with the optimal build. There are years of data that proves this. The other not to do this is that adds the yak shaving of spec balancing. The devs spend time right now balancing skills between jobs, and now you want them to do the same between specs.

Yay! yet another DOOOOOOM and GLOOOM! thread. "The game is going to tank faster than the titanic unless you make the game the way I think it should be made!!!?!~"

Where did that thread go with the collection of how many times people said the game will fail? Need to necro that one...

PS: It's been 2 years since the relaunch and it seems to be doing fine so far. I think what the game needs is a few more expansions for seasoning. Just with heavensward alone and only 5 extra skills, It has given me (as a WAR) the option to effectively DPS as an off tank. I dare say I can out DPS a MCH if I put my mind to it. So now I can tank and DPS as a WAR. Patience Young Padewan, Patience....

As anyone who's played FFXI could probably tell you, customization is a myth. Hell, even bonus stat allocation in this game is something that's largely unnecessary to have, because the majority of the classes really only have one worthwhile choice, which isn't really much of a choice at all.

What would end up happening (because this happens in *every* game that allows customization) is that the bean counters will find out what has the greatest overall practical/statistical benefit, and then everyone will have to run that particular setup or they will be gimp as hell. It's merely an illusion of choice.

There's already customization in this game. God Damn Fkin "Ice Mages" BLMs...

Don't really understand OP, nothing is stopping you from doing this? If you want to form a party of frost mages or whatever and go in to AS1, set up a pf and off you go

Except most people will realize you will make very little progress this way, and not join your pf. it has nothing to do with being a "hardcore raider". But if you wanted to do that, there is nothing stopping you.

You mention waiting a few months, until there is echo or everyone is way overgeared, well at that point I don't think anyone will be excluding someone based on class, that is only a consideration at the moment, because the raids have extremely tight dps checks.

Might just be me misunderstanding, but you're complaining that too many people are calling for optimization, and saying in a few months who will care... well the answer is no-one will?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The problem is that everyone can play each job. If everyone can be the same all the time, it's no specialization.
If players could only level one tank, one healer, one caster, one ranged physical and one melee, you could say that each job is a specialization of a role.

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I want customization same as you. But I want mine on classes which are not are built for specialization but horizontal gameplay.

If I buy a 1969 Gibson Les Paul and 200 others do, while 100,000 buy a Fender Stratocaster. My Les Paul is still has a signature build and sound. It still has specialization, same concept with jobs. Sure you can add different strings or pickups or have it made out of different wood. But that would only change the tone, not the core of what it is.