How can we make Bards and Machinist better?

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Originally Posted by Fuma

Good point, this guy has almost 1,000 posts and only joined the forums this April... besides the fact he doesn't have a job at 60 and doesn't have BRD or MCH even unlocked yet and cares to say that they're in a bad spot? Either he logs in as this character to troll instead of his main character or he really is that delusional, sick of the posters...

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I have multiple characters, a character for every class/job I play. I don't do the multi-class/job thing. Sorry dude. :'3

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I have multiple characters, a character for every class/job I play. I don't do the multi-class/job thing. Sorry dude. :'3

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I'm sure.

/10char

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

None of those are game changers like Paeon and Ballad are. They are more like Requiem, which doesn't lower dps (except for the cast time).

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Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used. Other DPS get all their buffs, no penalties what so ever, some are even reusable, part of rotation, and instant ... but lets pretend thats still balanced.

Regardless thats not the point ... we arent support, we arent "utility," those dont exist... we're DPS, that is all I said. The rest is for another of the 234897 threads already discussing the same.

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Having unique abilities that make you valuable to a raid is a problem?

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When youre only really useful for newby raids trying to get a clear and learn mechanics and your actual role is getting purposefully nerfed because of it? Yeah, it becomes a problem. Of course, threads like these who just throw in the "utility" or "support" role like it isnt completely and utterly wrong doesnt help.

Not to sound rude, but these skills sound horrible off the bat. As someone who mains Bard I would never lower my hp to regen someone, that is the complete opposite of support, same with your suggestion for a resurrection, it would eliminate the need of a healer. If Bard is to be fixed, which it does, they need to remove the cast bar and revert the class back to pre expansion. Add a tp bar to the party display making Paeon useful, expand stat buffs with defensive and attack based songs and add a song that does minor hp regen WITHOUT sacrificing your own. Then Bard will be better and more rounded.

As for Machinist all they really need is a damage buff, less RNG based attacks and the ability to use different types of turrets, similar to summoners Ifrit, Garuda and Titan summons. Maybe instead of focusing on buffs like the Bard, the Machinist could focus on non damage dealing debuffs.

There's been a bard or machinist (sometimes even both, from what I'm hearing) in every competitive savage group so far.

They don't need to be fixed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I have multiple characters, a character for every class/job I play. I don't do the multi-class/job thing. Sorry dude. :'3

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I....what?

That just sounds horrible. I can't even imagine going through the story that many times...surely you at least get cross class skills?

I'm baffled that anyone would choose to play this way!

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Originally Posted by Kayote

Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used.

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So lets pretend you aren't wearing your Job stone? Okay. Admittedly, this only works for Bard as Machinist has no class to build from, but that's 'beside the point'. Remember that all Bard adds to archer is one loose attack, three stance attacks and several support abilities (and whatever bonuses being Bard gives). Not losing much there and you get back 5 cross-class slots than can cross-class anything cross-class-able. I can't imagine anyone would take you seriously, though, given the prevailing stigma classes have. You might get instantly /votekick'd the moment anyone notices your party icon. Noone wants an archer, they want a Bard. And not because of their awesome damage potential.

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Originally Posted by Kayote

Yes lets pretend theyre all worthless in comparison like BRD/MCH buffs arent useful to anything but new groups who cant manage TP, take too long, or take too much damage. Lets pretend like those buffs dont do anything for the group and arent even missed when not used. Other DPS get all their buffs, no penalties what so ever, some are even reusable, part of rotation, and instant ... but lets pretend thats still balanced.

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The other skills are instant cast, but they're not a full minute duration. So the only thing that lowers BRD dps is the stuff that isn't needed? So why is it an issue? Freeze, Sleep, and Surecast lower BLM dps, where's the outrage over how broken they are?

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

As for Machinist all they really need is a damage buff, less RNG based attacks and the ability to use different types of turrets, similar to summoners Ifrit, Garuda and Titan summons. Maybe instead of focusing on buffs like the Bard, the Machinist could focus on non damage dealing debuffs.

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From how Machinist is currently, MCH appears more as a Offensive Support type DPS with how they can apply Physical or Magic Damage increase debuff while also boosting their own DPS as well with Hypercharge. Yes it is be shorter than Bard's Foe and has lower range but support wise it is very useful for the party since MCH can boost both Physical Damage or Magic Damage on a Enemy(or enemies) while improving their own DPS at the same time.

While Bard's Foe only focus on improving Magic Damage but doesn't improve on their own Damage.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

There's been a bard or machinist (sometimes even both, from what I'm hearing) in every competitive savage group so far.

They don't need to be fixed anymore.

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people cleared Binding Coil with DRGs, that doesn't mean their low magic defense compared to all the other jobs weren't a problem back in those days. just because people make the most out of something doesn't mean they don't have any problems.

Personally I'd like to see Warden's Paeon reduced to a shorter cast time ... say one second, or half a second. Three seconds for a single target requires clairvoyance (or knowing the fight going in), and isn't of much use for on-the-fly DoT prevention. Alternatively I'd be happy if they kept the three second cast time, but made it a group-wide song. Maybe even extend the duration to, say, five minutes. Reapply as necessary, but it'll last long enough where you don't have to keep a sharp eye on it.