Best Tank

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Originally Posted by Seku

Except it does...you can keep lying to yourself and not have them fix DRK though.

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Except what notion of Proper resource management escapes your mind?
I'm not advocating "not fix bugs" I however would greatly enjoy to see the level of hyperbole`on this forum go down, but consider you responded once more with a melodramatic post, it's rather evident players rather exaggerate.

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Originally Posted by Hanz

Except it does when you have 200mp above what you need for dark arts and then the server decides to tick it down to just below what you need. If your operating on the I'll keep a third of my pm for emergency dark arts dark mind. Then that little big can cause problems cos da won't activate. I understand the pm is working as it should but it should be ticking down once not tick down and tick up.

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What mob is putting you to 200 mp, what boss. What is resource management? I
You don't need to be keeping a third of your mp for emergency's fights are scripted, you are keeping your MP up by simple sense of having what you need when you need it. They provide us a large enmity modifier with potency to match so that we are running syphon combinations. Where the hell is your mana going. Spamming Unmend? Unleashes? AByssal drains? Come on.
Soul eater? Puh-lease. The class has 5 flipping abilities that recover mana.
Let's drop the hyperbole, a bug is a bug, the bug isn't going to destroy anyones success unless they themselves make a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

Except what notion of Proper resource management escapes your mind?

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What notion of false readings escapes yours? Because without the real consistent knowledge of your resources, you're not going to be doing proper resource management. If anything you'll end up like those gimp healers that sit on their MP until you're sure you have enough to make a move when you're starting to run low. Which then will put you at the stopping point sooner than what a player could have normally gone to.

Unless you're trying to tell me you've some how managed to do perfect math to give a approximate reading every few seconds while managing everything else. In which case you're bsing, a machine, or a genius. I'm leaning to the first option.

But it's good that you've found a happy medium for yourself, where you believe you're doing proper resource management.

Except it is consistent, it isn't false.
Dark side IS taking Mana, this isn't false. Your mana goes up This isn't false. What is supposed to happen is thatthe cost of Dark side and the mana regen tick are in sync so that they happen simultaneously and the player reads this as a smaller cost then what is displayed to them. However when bugged the darkside cost and regen tick happen separately this isn't a false reading, there is no placebo its happening right in your face. Instead of being taxed Darkside at the same time you recover mana, you get taxed Darkside at a different time, thats the bug. Putting on a buff automatically desyncs them so you'll see it out of combat. There isn't anything "false" about this for it to be false the Mana would have to technically still be there, it isn't. The games reporting the information to you on your MP bar accurately.

Your mana regen tick of 3% every 3 seconds while out of combat or 2% every 3 seconds in combat, is not happening at the same time Darkside ticks. How many times must this be gone over.

Your Darkside Tick was constant, your MP regewas in-combat constant your mp regen out-of-combat is constant, these 2 constants are supposed to happen at the same time. This did not remove your ability to manage your MP, this causes you to lose Darkside earlier if you mis-managed your resource.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

regen tick are in sync so that they happen simultaneously and the player reads this as a smaller cost then what is displayed to them.

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But their not in sync...so yet again....you're getting a false reading. As the game is taking more...and then refunding that back later, instead of giving you that smaller consistent amount. You're yet again....not going to be doing proper resource management, unless yet again, you're doing this on the fly , in your head aka the math, as you'll ALWAYS react to the values that are there. This is ALWAYS going to throw you off. Unless yet again you're delaying (waiting for that return), where normally you'd have reacted.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Didn't know that MT's had to level up another class and learn to play it to be good at MTing.

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The player can be absolutely fantastic at playing PLD, however an equal skill level DRK will take less damage from the tankbuster in A4. Therefore a player who is already a good MT but wants to maximize efficiency and help their static clear easier will have DRK leveled, know how to play it, and will switch to DRK for this circumstance. A bad MT will stay PLD and put extra pressure on their healers because he is too lazy to level/learn DRK.

Eventually with gear any combo of half decent players will be able to clear all of this, some of the top teams will probably even keep PLD and still manage to clear it, doesn't mean that is the best option for that specific circumstance.

What the OP asked is which is the best tank, what I'm saying is it's circumstantial based on the fight/player.

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Originally Posted by Gorlioliolio

A bad MT will stay PLD and put extra pressure on their healers because he is too lazy to level/learn DRK.

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Yet again. Didn't know that MT's had to level up another class and learn to play it to be good at MTing. Oh wait...they don't.

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Originally Posted by Seku

But their not in sync...so yet again....you're getting a false reading. .

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That is not a false reading. I rather not argue semantics but a false reading would be the game saying you have 700 mana and you actually have 0 or you actually have 1300 but this isn't being shown to you.
The game shows you exactly how much Mana you have at any given time, there is nothing false about it.
cally do the exact same in every fight.


It does not require anyone to be lenient with their mana. The Dark knights Darkside has been desyncing since its release. If one has not grown accustom to the rate at which their bar depletes after hundreds if not thousands of encounters they have been a *very* unobservant player. This does not require anyone sit on emergency funds or eye their MP bar with a magnifying glass.

You have 6917 Mana as a Dark Knight @ 60.
3% of that is 207 Mana every 3 seconds while out of combat.
2% of that is 138 Mana every 3 seconds while in combat.
Dark side costs 265 mana @ level 60.
When synchronized you lost 127 mana in combat. (265 - 138)
Granted your regen tick is higher with Piety so with a scholar in the party it's probably 126 though I can't be bothered right now to look at my MP total with a Scholar/AST.

Without any mana regen/costs it takes 54.46 seconds to run out of mana in Darkside from Full while in Sync. While Out of Sync You're going to gain the 138 at a different time from when you get costed 265. In general this won't make a difference however at your last tick if you are 265 mana or less when its time for the Darkside tick you will run out of mana. This essentially makes you leave Darkside ~1 Tick earlier when desynchronized.

The larger qualm was that buffs making Darkside tick while you were out of combat (which I can't even get to occur this morning) and obviously 265 > 201 so you lost mana and would eventually after about ~ 100 seconds bottom out out of combat.

Again none of this is a false tick given the game reports all of this to you, so you can see what is happening.

We're actually talking something particularly minor being used as a scapegoat for players not managing their mana correctly. While desynchronization is not ideal and will be eventually patched, It is trivial to DRK success.

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"You're yet again....not going to be doing proper resource management, unless yet again, you're doing this on the fly , in your head aka the math, as you'll ALWAYS react to the values that are there."

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This is wrong. It takes approximately 54 ticks to lose your mana, you don't even need to do the math you're not losing mana at a substantial enough rate that you need to sit there and eyeball it.
You gain 884 mana from every syphon strike (Let alone Blood weapon, Sole Survivor, Carve & Spit and Blood Price as additional options).
If we look at it sync'd One Syphon essentially covers you for 20 seconds of Darkside ticking. 2 syphons cover Dark Arts cost. You may find that this is semi-similar to the time it takes to build Wrath stacks, excusing that Sole Survivor, Carve & Spit, Blood Price and Blood Weapon also exist to recover mana where applicable. Without any MP resource tools you would just do a combo of Power Slash > Delirium combo > Soul eater combo and you'd be more then covered. With 1 syphon being equivalent to basically 20 seconds worth of Darkside ticks. Most of your mana is actually free to go to *anything* else. If you fit in a Delirium combo ~ 20 seconds (hey Delirium has a 20s duration wtf) you cover Darksides degeneration cost.
So everything else between those 20 seconds is basically gravy and all you concern yourself with is MP regen for everything *but* darkside as just by keeping Delirium combo (or just using it every 20s if theres a monk in the party for it being your 2nd highest potency combo) you cover Darkside.

Mp management isn't hard you basically do the same thing in every fight.

Seku Im going to clear this up for you with some nice clean napkin math and that relates to having and un-synced MP drain from Darkside and MP gain from regen does not effect your ability to effectively manage your resources.

We will make this very simple and say that you have 3000 MP. (this is not the actual value)

2% of 3000 = 60 therefore every 3 seconds with this MP pool you would regain 60 MP

To my knowledge Darkside seems to be roughly a constant 3% loss while in combat.

3% of 3000 = 90 therefore supposedly you should lose 90MP every 3 seconds

so what does this mean. that you should happen that you should only effectively lose 30MP every 3 seconds or 1/100th, however because they are desynced this doesnt happen, except it does as long as the ticks alternate the mean lose 90 a second later you gain 60 you still only effectively lost 30. so as long as you dont get a down 90 then ANOTHER down 90 the fact that they are not in sych is irrelevant as it provides you with the same effective MP at the end of a cycle and i have never seen a double down. This bug is QoL not game breaking and as far as resource management goes a non issue.

I will say PLD is kinda ugh on A4 (phases 1-2). Great on rav/bis ex, though a bit lame on anything with adds.

You cannot block any attack on A4 (aside from dolls), so the consistent mitigation from DRK and WAR abilities (non cd based) result in far more consistently even damage than PLD's big cds + long periods of getting face punched. Furthermore, no blocks = no shield swipe = out of TP in 2 minutes flat.

Furthermore, our stun eats up TP like nobody's business, and I have to call for goads and stop dps aside from Rage debuff for every leg.

In phase 3 palies fare better, able to have rampart + convalescence, sentinel, and rampart + virus up for the discoids (as well as hallowed ground).

However, I am really feeling the annoyance of paladin's lack of consistent mitigation options aside from big cds. Lower damage is also a bit of a concern, though not too much so. When palies can block damage intake is far more even, and you can TRANFORMERS ROLL OUT (er, sheltron) big hits all the time.

HG is still by far the best "emergency" button though, and clemency, cover are amazing off tank and raid utility. Not to mention divine veil, a fantastic AoE bubble.

I am not saying pali are bad, its just I wish I had a more on demand mitigation option, and better options vs magic/non blockable damage.

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Originally Posted by Hundred

there is nothing false about it.
The larger qualm was that buffs making Darkside tick while you were out of combat (which I can't even get to occur this morning) and obviously 265 > 201 so you lost mana and would eventually after about ~ 100 seconds bottom out out of combat.
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Originally Posted by pouncing

MP drain from Darkside

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Because the game telling you, you only have X mp when you're really suppose to have about Z mp is accurate... oh wait it isn't. Does it correct itself? Eventually.

So you both just sit in Darkside and don't use Dark arts, got it.