I really hope they fix the Mudra System. I suck at following rotations and nothing gets me more flustered then the Mudras half going off/slow/inconsistent, to the point that I forget where I was in my rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
NIN: Huton spam vs Skill Speed
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03-22-2015, 12:32 AMJudge_Xero
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03-22-2015, 01:13 AMCaraway
The effect of Huton is significantly more powerful than the effect of Skill Speed. Additionally, Skill Speed takes up stat slots better used for core DPS increases.
It would take a significant amount of Skill Speed to match what Huton gives you and then even then you'd still want to apply Huton because it's multiplicative (whereas Skill Speed appears to be additive).
Personally, I weight my Skill Speed to the point of not actually hitting 2.0 while buffed with Huton. You start getting clipping issues with both Mudra and DoTs when you get to 2.0 and further so you're actually not doing yourself any favours (not to mention the insane TP burn). Which is why things like the Shiva daggers are a waste for me. I can easily get enough skill speed without actually statting for it to hit the thresholds I need for 2.0 without sacrificing any Det or Crit.
Now, you shouldn't be 'spamming' the Huton ninjutsu either. As plenty of people here have said, you should be reapplying it somewhere around the late tens/early twenties of seconds based on your skill speed and lag restraints. This is of course assuming you're not going to have a disconnect from the mob. If you are moving between packs or there's a phase change/boss movement that causes you to be unable to engage then depending on how long that disconnect is going to be I'll re-apply Huton early. -
03-22-2015, 04:48 AMCallinonI'd like to see mudra inputs move client side so the server isn't having to verify each mudra as it's input. Would remove the mudra lag entirely and make the client be in charge of which ninjutsu was used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
My latency is generally pretty good (<40ms most of the time) but mudras still feel really slow and sometimes misfire. It's unreasonable to expect latency better than that and the system still doesn't work quite right. Needs fixed. -
03-24-2015, 04:16 AMMenaeThis is misleading. Your numbers are correct, but Huton increases the number of abilities you get off in a given amount of time by about 17%, regardless of your skill speed, so it doesn't have diminishing returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
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03-25-2015, 04:18 AMJudge_XeroOh you are right. I never thought about it like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Menae
2.5s GCD = 24 attacks
2.125s GCD = 28 attacks or 16.66% more attacks
2.0s GCD = 30 attacks
1.7s GCD = 35 attacks or 16.66% more attacks
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Was also curious if Skill Speed changes the Ninja Rotation after a certain value.
Like @ 460+ Skill Speed should you open with
- Dancing Edge, Mutilate, Shadow Fang, instead of Dancing Edge, Shadow Fang, Mutilate, in order to alleviate some of the clipping caused by the extra speed. -
03-25-2015, 06:28 AMFelix_GrimoireAt 469 I experienced no significant dot clipping. Maybe an occasional clip at 1 sec, but most of the time the reapplication was perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
At 518 I experienced a dot clip at 3 sec with the regular rotation in the beginning, but the 3 input Mudras helped balance things later on and everything went back to normal with an occasional clip at 1-2 sec. I tried swapping Mutilate and SF and after one clip at 4 sec in the beginning I noticed the reapplications returned to normal sooner than when I did SF before Mutilate.
I think with current gear unless you are stacking SS to some ungodly number with crafted gear you won't be able to hit a SS value that will clip your dots at anything above 1-2 sec. For the sake of simplicity I did not count the reapplication of DE as something that could be clipped. -
03-25-2015, 06:39 AMWhistonInteresting point. I am positive at some point you will be clipping Shadow Fang substantially, prompting you to put Mutilate in between your Shadow Fang combosQuote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
(which I think would work out opposite of what you posted with Mutliate before), but inevitably, you will be clipping dots. The biggest problem with Ninja is that to delay your Shadow Fang, your options consist of Mutilate (which will be up for most reapplications of Shadow Fang) or an entire Aeolian Edge or Dancing edge combo, which instead of clipping shadow Fang by 3 or 4 seconds, will now have it dropped off for 4-6 seconds instead.
I think basically the realistically usable skill speed cap for Ninja is when you come close to clipping Shadow Fang with Huton up, and any further will have you clipping dots with no feasible means to delay their upkeep. -
03-26-2015, 01:02 AMJudge_XeroHere is the Rotation I came up with for a 2 Second GCD (502 Skill Speed ewww)Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiston
DE (3) M(1) SF(2) AE (3) AE(3)
DE (3) SF (2) M (1) AE (3) AE (3)
DE (3) SF (2) AE (3) M (1) AE (3)
DE (3) SF (2) AE (3) AE (3)
-> Repeat
It does loop around the DE SF M opener. Although I'm not sure if it changes the average potency/GCD VS a lower SPD rotation.
Edited: Comparing it to the normal Rotation
It looks like it would raise your average potency/s by 5% (but since it's only 3/4 of your damage without effecting AA Damage) total 3.75%?Quote:
D - F - M - A
D - F - A
D - M - F - A
D - F - A - M
D - F - A --> Repeat
Normal Rotation
Total : 10430 Potency
91.375s
114.25 potency/s
SPD Rotation
Total: 11240
94s
119.6 Potency/s
And if you have a Warrior keeping up Storms Eye - it might be a little better with clipping and gives you a 7% return (only 5% compared to total damage)
(7180 Potency over 62s (116 Potency/s) vs 58s (124 Potency/s)
SF (2) M (1) AE (3) AE (3)
SF (2) AE (3) AE (3) M (1)
SF (2) AE (3) AE (3) AE (3)
SF (2) M (1) AE (3) AE (3)
IMO, I don't think it's worth it at all.
@ 31 Skill Speed to equal the Value of 28 Crit (this is under the most ideal conditions) -
03-27-2015, 02:31 AMalsims2007Actually the math is correct but the numbers are not because huton doesn't work like his second formula. Huton is always 2.5 gcd x 0.85 =2.125 and then skill speed is factored on top. Unfortunately huton has no affect on skillspeed since it factors in first at base gcd (2.5). the last piece of the puzzle is autoattacks. But that varies by weapon. I think the same formula would apply thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Menae
y Weapon speed x 0.85 = z.
1. Huton Multiplies from base gcd vs (I think) .001 additive reduction per sksd.
2.Huton and grease lightning are the only abilities that speed up autoattacks.
Long story short both work separately to reduce gcd but sksp needs to be compared to det and crit which affect autoattacks unlike sksp -
03-27-2015, 02:46 AMViridianaMy current GCD is 2.43*.85=2.0655, rounded in the display to 2.07. If your math were right, I would be at 2.125-.07=2.05. So, you're wrong. >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by alsims2007