Could have SE unknowing set FFXIV to fail....

Balance to this day has always been a major issue in XI. For endgame content besides being properly geared in the eyes of the community they also expect gear swaps which were never intended for the game and a good portion wanted you to have 3rd PT apps due to lack of QOL features.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

Most warriors I know use Storm's Eye themselves so really all nin does bring to the table is that whopping 10 second debuff.

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Most Wars when I am on NIN don't even bother and that is fine. Still Goad them and put DE up.

In FFXI certain jobs were excluded or picked last for content. Puppet-master was objectively worse than all other DPS classes for a good 2-3 years (possibly longer, I stopped playing it at that point). It had nothing to do with bad players at all.

On the other hand, Warrior was objectively worse than Paladin in XIV and it gets fixed within six months, and Dragoon its going to be balanced shortly.

I don't think it has anything to do with the strict trinity system though, just that XIV developers seem to be much more pro-active.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Aside from the fact that WAR was a worthless and broken tank when it came to raid content in 2.0, which has nothing to do with the statement. He means currently, which all classes are capable of. People are just basing this off of the "elite" raiders wanting to beat it before anyone else, thus using top DPS comps to do so.

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Yes, if you throw any job at i105 content at i120/i130, theyll handle it no problem. I never played XI end game, but I have a feeling if you drastically outgeared any of the content, you could do it with any job/subjob combo. DRGs suffer at the current gear level similar to how WARs suffered in 2.0. DRG needs MORE gear than MNK or sacrifices more main stat for more VIT (i90 ruby crafted) to still do less damage. If a WAR had enough gear in 2.0 they could tank any of the content, it would just be much harder to heal them.

So, yeah, if you outgear the content you can do the content as anything no matter how suboptimal your job is. If you're at the ilvl for the content, taking drastically more damage than the other melee DPS, and providing no unique utility besides boosting the BRD's damage (which doesn't outweigh a second MNK still or a NIN) then I think you're in dire straits. If you honestly think that's fine and that doing substandard DPS while providing pretty much nothing else to your group, literally being completely outclassed by both other melee jobs is acceptable because "with enough gear anyone can do anything!" then I'd like to hear your thoughts on removing all of Bard's songs and how viable/important he is to a group comp anymore.

I was on Diabolos once, it was very lovely there. Everyone gave hugs, ate lolly pops and farted rainbows. It was too stronk for me, so I had to move to Behemoth. Order is restored once more.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Misinformation? You yourself just ignored what they wrote.

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No, you are not reading what Grekumah wrote, absolutely nothing in that text talks about final coil exclusion.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

his is why I have a good feeling you don't do end-game, because it's become common knowledge FCs are excluding DRGs for the higher coils, especially the final 2. So..what misinformation? You asked and got an answer. You should probably actually do end-game, because the topic they replied in mostly started because people started excluding DRGs, thus making the problem more known. Is it really that hard to grasp?

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The topic started because people are afraid parties might exclude dragoons, go read the fist post of that thread.

It's not common knowledge, all boils down to YOUR static started excluding dragoons and now you think every single static in every single server is doing the same. Honestly, do you really believe a static will ask a highly skilled and geared dragoon "sorry dude, you have to level up MNK or NIN or get the boot"? DRGs aren't even in that bad of a state atm.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

For someone claiming someone else about spreading misinformation, you sure do seem to love twisting people's words. XI is one of the few MMOs that allows you to change your class on the same character which is what makes it more likely to run into certain issues on this subject.

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No, you said I didn't play XI so I couldn't say I don't miss being discriminated, I'm telling you XI wasn't the only game with class discrimination.

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Originally Posted by Vaara

In FFXI certain jobs were excluded or picked last for content. Puppet-master was objectively worse than all other DPS classes for a good 2-3 years (possibly longer, I stopped playing it at that point). It had nothing to do with bad players at all.

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Not according to Tupsi, XI was perfect and absolutely no one was discriminated by class, even tho many XI players in these forums have always said otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Honestly, do you really believe a static will ask a highly skilled and geared dragoon "sorry dude, you have to level up MNK or NIN or get the boot"?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2574974

Yes.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

(Protip: no job was excluded, just people bad at x job which is why people didn't want to take the job, for example people said Blue Mage and Corsair were worthless end-game.)

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Lol so much. BST was excluded not only from endgame but also XP party. Well except on Pet only LS but that's a cop out from a bad situation.
EDIT : and it's because of the way the job works.

What I'm hearing from some person that just migrate from FFXI, the all mighty RDM that everybody wanted at the time is like totally unwanted from anything now.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

Well, Guild Wars II did the same thing. I actually prefer the trinity, so most of the jobs have the same value because they're needed roles.

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I detested group play in GW2. I had a level 80 Engineer, never could get into party because i was apparently "Not doing it right" by using the gun with the healing shot and the Healing Turrets. Tried the Warrior after that. "What, no shield? GTFO!" when i tried doing dungeons.

The 'Holy Trinity' works because MMOs CAN'Twork any other way, currently.
For as long as combat is auto target DnD dice rolls with stats, we can't break away from it.

GW2 tried it, but the moment any class had the ability for restore someone else's HP, or to control a mobs target priority, they got forced into that healer or tank role. And if no one was around that could do either? Well, the dungeon turned into a fustercluck real fast.
There is nothing at all wrong with having Roles for players. Roles help to define and give personality to a given Job.

I'd love to see an MMO that played more like Monster Hunter in its controls and combat.
But you cannot simply retrofit an existing MMO to drop the trinity system. Ironically, TERA *could* have dropped the trinity system. I'm not really sure why they went with the Tank/Healer/DPS Roles, given how the BAMs functioned.

I don't think we'll ever see an MMO without the trinity system in some form.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Why do people assume you are limited in this? You can do funruns with various things. True for most stuff you need atleast one tank and one healer but beyond that parties can be anything you want. We're going for as many sch as possible t5 fun run recently. So it doesn't really limit you in that.

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This

It only limit you, if you don't know 7 other players for a premade party.

I wouldn't be able to enjoy group content if they removed the holy trinity.