Can we have challenging and rewarding 4 man content, please?

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Originally Posted by BigPapaSmurf

^not everyone hated it. A sample of a tiny, fractional minority of the playerbase did.

Many, many players loved it.

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Funny, I distinctly recall every attempt at Pharos Sirius starting off with everybody other than myself leaving. This happened around 20 times before I finally just asked the FC to help. Unless of course you're saying 60 players IN A ROW in the DF is a minority.

^you're likely exaggerating but that aside...

One person leaves, the rest usually follow, that's just a systems thing.

The main problem with pre-nerf Pharos was that the reward wasn't proportional with the difficulty (and therefore, time).

A second problem is the disproportional difficulty when it was meant to be designed in league with the HM releases of the time.

More challenging dungeons should be optional (Extreme Dungeons), not inappropriately mixed into a roulette with easier, equally rewarding dungeons.

Harder content isn't generally DF friendly, that's just a part of it too.

There's a reason you don't see a lot of random DF Titan Extreme happening.

The major contextual point of my original post being there are plenty of players who look back at pre-nerf Pharos with fondness. And many who would kill for more midcore support, especially optional harder dungeon alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Yoshi P said at fanfest part of the challenge in Coil is forming a team of 8 players to take it on and thus it offers better rewards then 4 mans they will not make 4 mans harder.

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They did not say they will not make 4man harder. They said if they were to make it harder, it wouldn't reward stuff as good as coil.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Funny, I distinctly recall every attempt at Pharos Sirius starting off with everybody other than myself leaving. This happened around 20 times before I finally just asked the FC to help. Unless of course you're saying 60 players IN A ROW in the DF is a minority.

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The problem about pharos wasn't that it was hard, which it was, but the fact it gave crappy rewards. Nobody wants difficult content for the lols (that's why savage scob has failed miserably), people want difficult 4 man content and rewards that match that difficulty. I would even say yes to a 4 man coil with proper rewards and a weekly lockout too, a bit tired already of the 8 man fights that only consist on gimmicks and positioning, T9 looks more like a dance and a memory test than a fight.

Why not just move the upgrade mats there? Make the 'challenging' 4 man content be the middle ground between coil and the most current dungeons. Players who usually do not get to coil can focus on these fights instead. It'll be easier to find 3 other trusted people if their play schedule is strict so that excuse will be gone. Coil raiders who finish early can do these outside of their group, or split into two or play with their friends who are unable to be in their static. If the upgrade mats are only available here, people will not avoid it like pharos. After a while they can do what they did with crystal tower and add the upgrade mats there. Considering that upgrade mats were essentially 'free' with the hunts, I don't think having a weekly win of 1 of an upgrade mat right at the start of a raid intro season as something 'game breaking'.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

All bosses drop four chests upon defeat, one for each player and will drop four-five items.

• For the mini bosses, the chests will drop: dye-able dungeon armour (Robe of Divine Death, for example, will still be i80, but can be dyed), untradeable paint dye (gold, silver, black, white, whatever other crazy colour SE will come up with next), 10 Venture coins, {Soldiery} item (Wootz, etc) and a 20% chance at dropping i115 gear.

• From the final bosses, exactly the same, but this time the fifth item that drops will either be the i115 gear (still 20%) or a i125 weapon (5% chance, locks you out from getting another weapon until reset).

Perfect incentive. Dungeons can give bosses more than one mechanic, players will actually have to think the same way they do in EX Primals, etc.

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Are you serious?

Dungeons dropping ilvl125 weapons when T9 drops ilvl115?

I don't even

The last set of 3 hardmode dungeons at least had unique looking sets - this time we got a year old, outdated gear that's been in the game since launch. And even this gear, which used to be obtainable much more easily than it is in 2.4, its only use now being vanity, drops rarely as you get crafting materials most of the time - and even if it drops, everyone can roll need on it which cuts down on the chance of obtaining a piece you actually want even more.
This seems to suggest that SE doesn't consider the current hardmode dungeons worthy of having loot tables worth mentioning, probably because they don't consider them challenging enough to yield actual rewards besides just the weekly tome cap.
Removing a year old equipment from tome and seal vendors just to put it in the new dungeons really feels like an insult, and I hope they'll reconsider their stance on 4 man dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Are you serious?

Dungeons dropping ilvl125 weapons when T9 drops ilvl115?

I don't even

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That's why you scale the difficulty to match the reward. If it were to drop 125 weapons then theoretically, it should be harder than T9.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Hi there.

One major thing that bothers me about this game, is that there seems to be virtually no challenge for small groups. The three new dungeons are nice and fun, but they're hardly difficult, and the rewards you get are accordingly underwhelming, pretty much near worthless, aside from the tomestones.

It seems like there is quite a gap between 4 man and 8 man content, for some reason. As far as remotely relevant content goes, we skip from faceroll easy 4 man to 8 man content where having a handful of inexperienced players in the group basically means you're not going to beat it.

Could we have some middle ground, please? I'd really love some content that's actually difficult but for a party size of 4 instead of 8. It's much easier to get a small group of somewhat competent players together than it is to get a large one, and if there was more difficult and challenging content for small groups, the rewards for said content could also be something a little bit more exciting and less outdated.

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The reward is tome gear.

The challenge is the end game dungeons.



The reward is real.

Except elitists complain that the tome gear shouldnt equal coil gear so they lower the tome gear ilvl, then add hunts, then elitists complain that there is no point in doing coil now.

The challenge is real.

Except the forums complain that the dungeons are too hard and they nerf them.

Pharos Sirius for example.

/thread

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Pharos Sirius for example.

/thread

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Pharos Sirius was ignored because it was blatantly harder than the other two dungeons in that patch cycle but dropped the same tier of rewards. Nobody wants to waste their time doing content that is hard yet doesn't offer anything for the added difficulty, unless you're into novelty and then something like Savage Coil is probably right up your alley.