Challenge vs. reward: turn 5

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

And yh, the biggest gate to any content in this game, are the 7 other players with you, or even worse, not with you.

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this

finding it pretty hard to recover from a short absence where i left my fc, the options are minimal.

1. df (ok for fun but no expectations)
2. pf (takes 3 hours to form a group that some of us just don't have anymore, can still fail badly)
3. wait for content to be made casual (storymode casual.. since thats all df is good for)

i've always been a no-lifer when it came to mmorpgs before so never seen these problems before but guess we all have to move on to other things sooner or later

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

this

finding it pretty hard to recover from a short absence where i left my fc, the options are minimal.

1. df (ok for fun but no expectations)
2. pf (takes 3 hours to form a group that some of us just don't have anymore, can still fail badly)
3. wait for content to be made casual (storymode casual.. since thats all df is good for)

i've always been a no-lifer when it came to mmorpgs before so never seen these problems before but guess we all have to move on to other things sooner or later

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Same as yourself, took a break, now paying the consequences. I had to buy mog, even though I knew the fight , lol even the sell group wiped us, can you imagine how frustrating that is? To need to buy easy as shet content......at least ramuh is current content and pretty easy again, and it seems likely i'll get a clear in pf.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

...so people would start doing it,which would mean that a player that has yet to complete it would get more parties that have players that know what they are doing so they can learn the fight, insted of just running to parties full of new players who have no idea what they are doing...

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You do not need a party of 7 ppl who know what they are doing in order to learn the fight, the whole point of raiding is progressing as a group... playing with ppl of your skill lvl so that all of you learn the fight at the same time.

If you need 7 ppl who know the fight you are basically asking for a carry which will hurt you once you get to SCOB, if you can't handle the mechanics in T5 you won't be able to handle SCOB.

If you want to beat T5 DF is certainly not the way to do it, try to form a LS of reliable people, i'm sure there are more people like you that are interested in progressing T5 and beyond.

Knowing the fight can be interpreted as watching a youtube video, in regards to T5. You deal with one mechanic at a time, just learn each one, not hard at all to enter this fight "knowing" it.

Or are you suggesting 8 ppl do not watch videos or read guides and try to complete it? Hmm I wonder how many completed T9 that way.

The biggest challenge with T5 is finding a competent group. One person can ruin the raid. Which is still the case in second coil, there are just much more skilled players attempting 2nd coil.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Knowing the fight can be interpreted as watching a youtube video, in regards to T5.

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Watching a video is not knowing the fight, if it was most of the population would have beaten T9 already. Knowing what to expect (watching a video) and actually executing your job (which comes from practice) are two entirely different things.

I watched plenty T5 videos back in the day and it still took me 3 months to be able to beat it (pre-echo days of course). Heck on our first pulls i remember dying to the adds at the beginning, the tanks being one shot by the weak death sentences of the first phases and stuff even though the 8 guys in our party had watched videos.

What im suggesting is forming a group that actually wants to progress and not expect to get a group of 7 pros that carry you through the whole fight. T5 is training for what's to come don't try to skip it, learn it.

First off, I understand your frustration. My static will sometimes DF T5 with a few spots open and help people through it if they are in fact ready. One thing we've learned is there are a ton of people who think since T5 is old content its easy, and they don't do any research.

I'm curious to know how much time you've spent on the fight though? The reality is it took most of us working with a close knit group 40+ hours to clear twin in 2.0.

Additionally to what everyone else has said here though, if you can't handle watching your focus target for 1 wipe mechanic in T5; second coil will eat you alive. The practice you put into clearing T5 will give you the tools to clear T6.

I understand how frustrating it can be, I was stuck on T5 for over a month before switching server. However, I don't agree with nerfing it anymore. People do T5 to get to Second Coil. T5 helps you learn to react to much harder hitting and more unforgiving mechanics, how to deal with things properly as a group, and also develop the patience to wipe repeatedly for hours just for 5% progress on the healthbar.

So yeah, I realise it's a pain, but it ultimately helps out.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

there are just much more skilled players attempting 2nd coil.

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While this was true in the beginning...but I'm starting to see more and more people crop up who blatantly bought their turn 5 wins. Just a couple weeks ago I was pugging turn 7 and ended up in a party with a dragoon who claimed to have gotten the fight down to 10%. He ended up petrifying the tanks 3-4 times before someone decided to kick him. A few days later joined a new party and, lo and behold, the dragoon was there. I /tell the party leader about him and that he might consider removing him from the party. The leader decided to give the dragoon a shot anyway. The first Cursed Voice...he froze the tanks -_- The other healer was really nice about it though and asked him why he didn't turn away for voice. His response? "The tank was standing in the wrong place. I shouldn't have to sacrifice DPS." /facepalm

So yea, people trying to DF turn 7 in a few weeks are going to have a hell of a time trying to learn it with players like this attempting mechanics that cause full party wipes.

1/ You said T5 has many mechanics that can one shot people no matter the Ilv and echo? I will correct it by saying only 1, Twister. Divebomb is not strong enough to one shot people, given their ILV is 95+ ever, Wall is the one that kills you, when you get knocked into the Wall by Divebomb. Ignoring about finding a group that can handle those challenges in T5, at least if you die, you can still be resurrected and the area is big enough for you not to manoeuvre around without worrying about touching the wall. While as in Titan Ex, LEVI Ex, falling off the area/ boat, you are gone for good, not enough people to kill the Heart/adds or Plumes means a wipe. If you can find a group to handle Titan/LEVI ex, you can find yourself people who can handle Divebomb/Twister nowadays. Again, try harder.

2/ One more, you don't understand the differences in purpose between Primals fight and Coil Fights. People need Primals fights to progress in their story mode and to unlock most of the content out there. Primal fights are aim for those who is casual, not interested in Coil one way or another. Coil was built for hardcore, those who love to challenge themselves, and it is not compulsory for you to clear it to fully enjoy the game. In Final Fatansy series, Primals are always one of the important aspect of the whole game whilst Coil is a small expanded part of the whole story. In shorts, Primals are for casual and average players, thus they are easy. Coils are for hardcore and love challenging players, thus they are harder but not challenging.

3/ You wonder why LEVI Ex gives out the same Ilv weapon as Coil's weapon while being significantly easier and does not make sense to you? I will tell you why. Back to the day where LEVI Ex is not around, Coil's weapon was the one and only ilv95 weapon you could achieved and only by clearing T5, you had a chance to have them. However, because there are still casual players and those who are not interested in doing Coil, SE decided to give Levi Ex drop Ilv95 weapon, so that those players, without doing Coil, still have a chance to wield ilv 95 weapon. Again, nothing does not make sense when one was existed long before the other was add. And they are served for different purposes, target various types of player. You can also say the same for Ramuh and Unweathered weapon (back to the day Sand and Oil and UTS only exist in Coil, Noxus and T9 weapon.

4/ I cleared all the contents available at the moment, yet I still see people failed at TiTan HM/Garuda Ex/, heck even Garuda HM, can I voice my opinion saying that Titan HM/Garuda HM/Garuda EX are so challenging? You have the wrong idea. Again, like I said, using DF to gauge the challenge level of any content is wrong completely.

5/ and 6/ You are playing an MMORPG, interacting and make friends with players are important. Expand your circle, reach out to them for help, ask around your FC,LS,World for members, you just need the clear right, just go out and ask, I am sure they will not turn you away for having 15 mins of their playing times, given they are all capable of one shot T5. If not, you can always make friends with them and ask for help some other days. You run with them before, so you know who is capable, who is incapable. So, the more people you run with (not via DF ofc) the easier it will get when you want to have a full party. Prove to them that you are not the one wasting their time (perfectly executed of all mechanics), then ask them if they can come another time if you happens to fail but not by your faults. I am sure, they will say Yes. And again, the idea of any content should be clear-able via DF just because it is old is wrong. Buy run or not, it is up to you. If you think you understand fully well the whole T5, not making any mistakes but because of people sucks, feel free to buy run and not feel bad for yourself if you want to save your time and frustration. If you still want to buy run while you yourself are the inexperienced one, then yeah, you should feel bad.

7/ When I say Titan Ex is more challenging than T5, I don't mean individuals skill vs Group skill. Group skill comes from individuals skill. I could strongly say T5 is all individuals skill because it is individuals's responsibility to execute every mechanic right (get moving when Twintania Focus appears, get moving when a small little bar called Twister being cast). What I meant was in Titan, there is no way to resurrect the dead players once they fall to the pit or having a massive lag hit whilst in T5, they can always be resurrected as many times as you want as long as you have enough mana for tanks and you think by raising them, you are not wasting your mana.