Is there anything worth farming in this game?

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Originally Posted by Chippy2

Totally agree 100% I know they want to abolish RMT, but in doing so are ruining the chances of this game to GREAT!. We need farmable items & mats and a better economy. Pieces you can craft like the abjurations in XI When added to pieces dropped of Gods and NM Made excellent and lastable armour.

It's not hard to implement it here?. EX Primals drop (X) item when you meld item (X) with a crafted item you get cool armour or accessories!.

XI had RMT all the time I played it around 5+ years yes it was annoying but did it ruin the game NO IT DIDNT!. That game has been going for 10+ years and in its prime had a really thriving economy!.

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Just look around there are RMT everywhere in this game. Its no different the XI and in fact they may be worse here because people are so desperate for gill.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

This guy knows how it works.

Too many people are expecting to make millions of gil with a few synths, and then when they see they can't get it, they deem the economy broken. Meanwhile, those selling stuff between 4 and 10k are making 100k per day. I know I was making 1 mil per week when I was really trying.

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It's almost like there are people who made or are making 6 figures a day easily, a single Titan sale nets each seller your daily income. An organised treasure hunting group does it in a few hours.

Which is the whole point of this thread, RoI. Return on investment on crafting and gathering compared to other sources is terrible, which makes crafting second fiddle when the whole motivation behind leveling these classes is to make money. There a sunk cost to making money crafting, plus time spent crafting and time liquidating the goods, as well as volatile market prices to deal with.

Something turning a profit isn't enough to encourage investment, everyone has finite resources to invest (in this case time) and crafting prices makes it an inefficient use of time. These are very basic economics.

What you're saying would make sense if everything else in the game deflated at the same scale as the profit margins in crafting, because value is relative. But the fact that there's still ways to rake in millions a week, plus housing with prices scaled to that sort of income still means that what you're describing is wrong

Go milk some buffalo out @ Costa Del Sol.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Return on investment on crafting and gathering compared to other sources is terrible, which makes crafting second fiddle when the whole motivation behind leveling these classes is to make money.

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Well, dunno about you, but my whole motivation behind leveling these classes is "crafting is fun!".

Maybe someday I'll do a little research and figure out how I can actually use my crafts to make money, but for now I really don't care too much.

The problem is that you can make gil, but you have to look at gil/hour to get a good picture.

Making 10k /manhour is easy and kind of a baseline -- treasure maps, daily quests, and other very basic stuff can get you there easily or a bit above (15k maybe). But this is insanely low. For a medium house at 100 M you are looking at 10.000 manhours. Assuming half people participate in a 100 people FC (generous ratio i believe), that's 200 hours per person farming. That's utterly ridiculous, considering it is a GRIND. At 5 dollar/manhour (again, generous for the sake of it) we are looking into 50k dollars of wasted time on unfun activities, for a single FC. Just consider all you can do in 200 hours, then consider you need 50 freacking people willing to devote that much to the cause.

So you need to make more to not get insane. Personnally i can get to about 30k/hour when my market corners are not in shambles. Getting higher than this is pretty hard for me, and i assume for anyone. When philo items sold for 30 or 40k you could do over 100k/hour just rushing WP -- and HQ 70s items sold for insane amount, HL crafters were making a killing way above this. People that farmed in the first two months of the game were basically able to pull out money at least 5 times quicker (probably 10 times for dedicated crafters) than you can now. That is what people are complaining about. You can still get gils, but the economy has indeed crashed, and you have to farm like a second job to get to the money necessary for housing.

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Originally Posted by Casper

The problem is that you can make gil, but you have to look at gil/hour to get a good picture... You can still get gils, but the economy has indeed crashed, and you have to farm like a second job to get to the money necessary for housing.

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Complete truth. Ergo basically we are all rmt'rs.

Piece of work this economy and the supposed 'rules' put in place to 'help stem the tide' of RMT. The economy is screwed for general player JohnnyB and the RMT humping continues.

Appreciate your post very much Casper; clarity is good, thanks.

PLEASE farm animal skins and hides. No one likes doing this and it can't be acquired from gathering. So if you are one of the rare few people that actually LIKE tedious farming… that's the thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Casper

skip

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I'm just amazed by this answer, well done!

On top, I really think SE should put huge limitation on the jobs we can level especialy when it come to craft. Its just ludicrous for everyone to be Lv50 Smith/Gold/Armorer/whatnot, it goes against the "supply & demand" by allowing everyone to do everything.

What I mean is, it would not be better if you were able to level up to 50 only fisher, miner or botanist at Lv50 & the 2 left @ Lv25 for cross class abilities that could benefit the main one you chosen?

Same for craft, you pick armorer as main to get to (50) & you are allowed to level rest to Lv25-30 only for CC Abilities purpose. I think it would cut the pear in 2 for everyone, more supply & demand and less people throwing everything they have at silly prices on the market board.

Since not everyone is playing every days & at the same time of the day, wouldn't that make it better? I believe it would give more sens to supply & demand, and so raise prices.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It's almost like there are people who made or are making 6 figures a day easily, a single Titan sale nets each seller your daily income. An organised treasure hunting group does it in a few hours.

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For each seller to be making the same that I do per day with a single Titan run they have to be selling them for 700k. Last I checked those runs were selling for 200k on Phoenix. Still, those obviously make more money and I don't see a problem with that.

Though at least this math isn't as bad as your THing math. When my FC does TH we make on average 250k with 15 maps in around 2 hours. That's more like 30k per person.

In fact:

1 Peiste map with 8 players generates at least 13376 gil (I think the minimum gil is 1672)
8 maps per day is 107008 gil minimum
Do these 8 maps per day for a week and that's roughly 750k.
I'll be generous here and say that 5k maps will net you 1 mil per week for 8 people.

Yes, I spent roughly 2 hours per day (sometimes more, sometimes less) farming mats and crafting them to make 1 mil per week, but that's a single person.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Something turning a profit isn't enough to encourage investment, everyone has finite resources to invest (in this case time) and crafting prices makes it an inefficient use of time. These are very basic economics.

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Awesome, then don't craft and those of us that bother to craft will be making gil while you complain on the forums about how the economy is broken.

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Originally Posted by Casper

For a medium house at 100 M you are looking at 10.000 manhours.

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You're on Phoenix like me. Not even the L houses are 100 M.

Adjusting your math to reality and using the final price (end of March) of the most expensive L plot on Phoenix (which is 50 mil I believe):

Using your estimate of 10k per hour, it would take 5000 man hours to get the gil for the plot.
Using your estimate of 50 people in a 100-man FC actually working for the thing, that would mean 100 man/hours for each person.
if everyone dedicated 1 hour of their time per day for this (which is reasonable considering that some of the stuff you mentioned can only be done a limited times per day), it would take said FC a little bit over 3 months to get an L plot.

Wow, suddenly this doesn't seem so unreasonable does it?

And when you take into account that people that actually try making gil aren't making 70k per week but 1 mil per week (and I do acknowledge that if everyone crafted like I did, we wouldn't all be making 1 mil per week, but we don't all craft, so yeah), well, suddenly house prices don't seem outrageous anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

On top, I really think SE should put huge limitation on the jobs we can level especialy when it come to craft. Its just ludicrous for everyone to be Lv50 Smith/Gold/Armorer/whatnot, it goes against the "supply & demand" by allowing everyone to do everything.

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That would just be horrible and ruin one of the biggest strengths of FFXIV: the ability to level all classes on a single character. I won't sacrifice that just because people are too lazy to make gil.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

That would just be horrible and ruin one of the biggest strengths of FFXIV: the ability to level all classes on a single character. I won't sacrifice that just because people are too lazy to make gil.

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You could do it on XI without restriction & while the crafting was very long to level up (and costly) it was very balanced & rewarding. Yes you had a subcraft system, but if you ask me to chose betwin all craft 50 to make very poor gils due to everyone to spec into everything

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To have one craft specification with sub craft to make more gils cos what I make is more unique and will for sure be in demand then yeah I would take the 2nd option w/o regret.