Whats the big issue with dps pulling mobs?

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

White knight much? There is a "correct" speed. It's the speed agreed upon the team members, or at least the majority of them. These occasions that im talking about are mostly when we agree pre dungeon that we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. And i have never been inconsiderate about it. Whenever i pull, i make sure everyone in the party is well equipped and able to handle a speed run. If three people go in expecting a speed run and the tank isnt doing it, then im not the one at fault.

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Dude, no. A speed run does not exist unless the entire party is okay with it. Everyone but the tank going into a run saying "yay speed run!" means there will be no speed run. If that's your attitude, then any tank worth his/her salt should (and hopefully will) let you die. Deeps need to learn hard lessons.

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Originally Posted by Tawm

DPS are in no position to decide the pace of dungeon progression.
Players who have no regard for one another are the bane of online gaming.

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No, the bane of online gaming are people who simply "contribute" by jumping at other players. NEVER did I say i was deciding the pace of the dungeon. The scenarios im talking about is when we agree we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. Of course, you would know that if you took a second to ask about more details, instead of going into auto pilot and blaming me for everything that is wrong with the online gaming community.

@Everyone else with the helpful posts,

Thanks. i have a better understanding of the pulling issue and will try to address it differently in future runs.

As a DPS the only thing I will pull are the Succubi in AK. Everything else I feel is the tank's responsibility. They have a ranged attack that generates enmity. It makes it more work for tanks if DPS pull things, especially if they continue to DPS it after pulling it.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

This isn't a troll thread. its an honest question. I find that one of the biggest complaints about dps is pulling mobs (the other being not dodging aoe). Since I am a melee dps, i find myself doing it often when our tank is not going fast enough and our aoe isnt being optimized.

So serious question, whats the problem with a dps pulling mobs? cant the tank just pull aggro again?

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You taking that initial spike of enmity means that instead of focusing on holding the group and building hate so that the healer and DPS can do their thing, the tank is now exclusively focused on trying to tear that monster away from you at the expense of everything else. Your attempt to speed up the run by 2 seconds by pulling the mob yourself will, in most cases, actually extend the time of the run because the fights will be messier, and DPS won't be able to fully unload without facing the wrath of whatever they are attacking. This is especially true if there are AoE DPS in the party as holding full blown AOE-generated enmity on a group of any consequential size requires all of the tank's concentration, and they won't be able to give it if they have to spend their time compensating for your impatience.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

No, the bane of online gaming are people who simply "contribute" by jumping at other players. NEVER did I say i was deciding the pace of the dungeon. The scenarios im talking about is when we agree we are doing a speed run and the tank doesnt do it. Of course, you would know that if you took a second to ask about more details, instead of going into auto pilot and blaming me for everything that is wrong with the online gaming community.

@Everyone else with the helpful posts,

Thanks. i have a better understanding of the pulling issue and will try to address it differently in future runs.

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Oh yeah, and another thing... what in the world is a drg doing talking about 'sr' and 'optimizing aoe' o-O

As a DPS, I will pull occasionally. Now I will make sure the party is still moving forward before doing so. Also I will do a ranged attack to pull the enemy towards the tank in which the tank will pull aggro at that point and time. If its a single enemy then yes I will pull but only in AK or WP for that is what I am familiar with the most. My class is DRG and I can usually do enough damage to the enemy to keep my own HP high enough until the enemy is dead. With two stuns and the DPS that I can put out, a single enemy will fall pretty quick once the party starts attacking and I have already used a few abilities. But if its a group of enemy's I usually leave them alone. Again, I will only pull if I know for certain I alone can handle the enemy by myself without much help from the party.

I don't see an issue with this as a tank myself, long as said DDs don't get offended if i decide to just let them keep said mob. Provoke is on a considerable timer and i personally like to have it ready for emergencies and for most content a dps having a mob on them is not an emergency. There are of course places, like coil for example, were a DD should never be the one to initiate an encounter on a whim.

It is annoying to have DPS try to dictate the pace of things, but most are good enough to stop by the third time they die :)


I would like to also point out that it is also annoying the other way around though, like having a tank that decides to call a strategy meeting per pull :P

DPS pulling for me constantly does annoy me as a tank. There are a few reasons.

The main reason would be that I pull at a rate that I am comfortable pulling at. If I'm new to a dungeon, this means that I'm going to be pulling at a slower rate as I mouse-over mobs to see what links where, and try and take not of any patrols loitering about. Someone pulling for me in this scenario essentially robs me of my chance to get a feel for the dungeon. Instead of paying attention to what mobs are being pulled from where, suddenly I'm trying to get aggro back from the dps that pulled, or from the healer who had to spam heal the dps and now has aggro on mobs that were out of my flash range when I was trying to pull off the dps and so on. It's just a lot more chaotic.

The other reason is linked to the first one.. the whole chaotic aspect of it stresses me out. I dislike being stressed all the time. If a dps pulls (especially if one of the mobs is ranged), then many times it send the mobs scattering, and it's a little event in and of itself to get everything gathered up, facing towards the front of me, and all attention on me. Those few seconds of "AHHH, GOTTA ROUND THEM ALL UP" panic moment aren't really fun for me.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

This isn't a troll thread. its an honest question. I find that one of the biggest complaints about dps is pulling mobs (the other being not dodging aoe). Since I am a melee dps, i find myself doing it often when our tank is not going fast enough and our aoe isnt being optimized.

So serious question, whats the problem with a dps pulling mobs? cant the tank just pull aggro again?

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In my long time tanking I always felt it was disrespectful, when my friends did it I didn't mind as much. I mean if a tank feels you're not pulling your weight with DPS he rarely is going to switch out his cross class taunt with a DPS cooldown, right? Someone might just be a little distracted or just take an extra second on a pull for whatever reason. Also he might have just been about to type afk for some kind of emergency, in that case you've wiped everyone.

If your wife is going into labor or something that means you really have to rush, you can politely explain that to the tank before you just start pulling things. The tank's wife might be going into labor too so he might be a little distracted! So let's all have compassion for the various speeds at which people complete groups. Your wife isn't going into labor, you have a few minutes, if your time is so limited or precious don't queue.

EDIT: If you were specifically talking about speed runs, I dunno? Find a better tank for them? Like honestly. That's something where you just have to use your communication skills and talk with the tank about the pace of his pulls, I mean apparently you know better than him what a speed run entails.

No issue - as healer, I let them die. As tank I let them die, if DPS can't wait a few seconds for me to get set (as tank), that's their problem and they should die lol. As mean as it is, people will never learn if you coddle that behavior.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Oh yeah, and another thing... what in the world is a drg doing talking about 'sr' and 'optimizing aoe' o-O

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DRG's AoE's are powerful only if done in a combo rotation, otherwise I've seen spikes of 740+ (Doom Spike that is) on multiple mobs, so it's fairly powerful when rotated correctly.