Thief>Ninja/Dancer Class/Job

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Any extra job that ARC gets is going to have to be DPS because there's nothing else that ARC could turn into without turning a number of its abilities into completely and utterly new abilities.

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This is what I meant when I said "designs that overlap". I'd expect ARC's second job to be DPS with better scaling or better attack options (more AoE, target based AoE like Survival hunters, faster and better shots). So in essense you and I agree unless the devs decide to have the job crystals change the base class entirely to fit whatever they intend said job to do.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I'd be *really* curious to see where you saw this because I have yet to see *anything* that supports your claim here.

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I think it was mentioned in one of the interviews with Famitsu, where Yoshida talked about the fact the game lacked a dagger/rogue-type class.

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If you want to get technical, MSK is needed more than THF because the game already has 2 mDPS classes and 2 casters but only 1 rDPS class so MSK is needed to round it out.

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Thematically and gameplay-wise rogue classes are unlike other melee classes. Of course, the main element of rogue classes (positional requirements) have been given to both MNK and DRG so I'm interested to see what the mechanical difference between THF and the other two melee DPS would be.

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If you want to get *more* technical, the game actually needs more tanks and healers than DPS because there are only 2 tank and healer options each but there are 5 (soon to be 6, since Yoshi has actually confirmed the MSK and the first boss of Pharos only cements it) DPS options.

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I doubt the devs would lock themselves into implementing jobs and classes to maintain perfect parity, as that would severely limit their options.

As far as the first pharos boss, a guy with a sword in one hand that ocassionally pulls out a gun to do a line attack is not what I would consider proper representation of a musketeer.

Well again that is not confirmed,but i saw that in interview not sure which one need to look :) He didn't said exacly thief will be come from his own class but he siad game need scout class and we are want to bring back classic jobs like thief,ninja samuray... Again he siad jobs and not classes if you did notice. i agree about msk...I love poth msk and thf and do not mind which will be add first,each will be make me happy :)

All I really see out of this thread is Yoshi said/confirmed so & so. Might be helpful if someone complied any interviews where he's chimed in on possible job/classes.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I think it was mentioned in one of the interviews with Famitsu, where Yoshida talked about the fact the game lacked a dagger/rogue-type class.

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There's a difference between "we're missing a dagger/rogue-type class" and "THF will be its own job instead of class". The THF>NIN model that we THF-as-class people follow still fulfills the archetype of the "dagger-wielding/rogue-type" just as well as the ROG>THF model so you can't really draw any conclusions concerning Yoshi's position on the job/class dichotomy from that statement.

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I doubt the devs would lock themselves into implementing jobs and classes to maintain perfect parity, as that would severely limit their options.

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It's less about perfect parity and more about realizing that "crapton of DPS jobs and very few tanks/healers" is a really bad way to set up class selection for roles. I firmly believe that one of the major reasons that tanks and healers are so rare in *every* game is because the options are so slim compared to DPS; ARR is one of the few games that has maintained anything *approaching* a more equal distribution of tank/heal options compared to DPS options because they don't use talent trees, which basically end up creating a ~8 DPS options for every one tank or healer option because of the supposition that a class should only have 1 tank or heal tree (the only other major MMO that I can recall off of the top of my head that maintained a similar level of tank/healer-to-damage ratios was City of Heroes/Villains, which had something like a 2:2:1 ratio of damage-support-tank, though it got really funky given certain powerset choices; interestingly enough, the breadth of support and survivability options actually ended up causing the game to have a ratio that actually favored support/tank players rather than DPS but that was both due to the fact that it wasn't a traditional trinity MMO and also had *horribly* overpowered support sets).

There's a certain cultural disinclination towards tanking/healing and inclination towards DPS, but the fact that there are so many *more* options to DPS just serves to make tanking/healing less appealing and DPS more appealing (since you're much more likely to find a playstyle matching your preference in a given role when there are 5 distinct playstyles to choose from as opposed to just 2).

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Originally Posted by Nama

All I really see out of this thread is Yoshi said/confirmed so & so. Might be helpful if someone complied any interviews where he's chimed in on possible job/classes.

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My apologize it is be cuase my english not so good,that is why i am using less words...And about more information,well if there will be we all know that....

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Originally Posted by Nama

All I really see out of this thread is Yoshi said/confirmed so & so. Might be helpful if someone complied any interviews where he's chimed in on possible job/classes.

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The problem I keep having when going back to find stuff is that so many sites end up linking to the same aggregate so that when you google and look for it, you find a single interview over and over and over again. Checking it out now, finding something approximating a first person account (Yoshi speaking or, at the very least, someone saying exactly what Yoshi said) as opposed to a second person account (someone summarizing in their own words what Yoshi said) is really really difficult, which contributes to much of the confusion about what Yoshi has actually said in regards to certain things because summarization and commentary have a bad habit of inserting the reporters' own opinions, desires, and biases.

The most commonly linked one that I could find that references Yoshi talking about new classes/jobs in any way is this one, wherein (at the very end) it Yoshi/Squeenix is stated as being willing to add new jobs if they are needed to fill various team roles without breaking the balance of the game, but also that it's a lot of work that, for iconic classes/jobs, they're willing to do (which effectively means we're not likely to get anything that *isn't* truly iconic, like Puppermaster or Beastmaster). I think the only reason that we're getting MSK, even though it's not really iconic, is because it's something the devs wanted to be in the game from the start (the MRD's guild in Limsa was originally supposed to be the MSK's guild and there's all of those guns/pistols hanging at NPCs' sides).

There is an old interview here (it's from pre-release) where Yoshi specifically says that they're not going to change jobs just for the sake of being different and are, basically, instead looking to see what roles need to be filled and then choosing a class/job to fill it as opposed to looking at a class/job and deciding what role it should fill (e.g. "we need a stealth/rogue class and THF/NIN works for that" as opposed to "we need THF/NIN and they could be brought in as a stealth/rogue class"). Assuming that they haven't shifted from this fundamental viewpoint (which there isn't really any suggestion that they have), it really does mean that there's only going to be one stealth/rogue-like class. Unless NIN suddenly stops being a stealth/rogue-like (possible but would be really weird), it pretty much means that it'll either be THF>NIN or we're only going to see one of them. As a random side note, it's also strongly supports the idea that we're never going to see RNG, which some people think should be an additional job for ARC.

While I can't find a link for it at the moment (and would be quite glad if someone else could find it), I recall an interview that gets referenced quite often in these discussions where he talks about being able to turn GLD into DRK by removing the additional enmity modifiers from the attacks and discussing the likely implementation of a "real" dagger wielding class/job (GLD can already use daggers, but they're just really low level swords arbitrarily called daggers). The first was in reference to how feasible, from a development standpoint, it would be to add a new job for an existing class that deviates from its originally intended role; in his example, it was basically "how does one turn a tank class into a DPS job" (which, at best, suggests that they're thinking about bringing in DRK and, at worst, are already able to play around with secondary effects on a job-for-job basis to control their role). The second brought up the most likely implementation of dual wielding (Yoshi actually said that it would, in all likelihood, be a single slot that simply shows up as two weapons on your character) as it pertained to bringing in THF or NIN (and I'm pretty sure he referenced both as part of it) as well as what could happen if there are multiple classes using what are, nominally, the same weapon (it was suggested that either they would get rid of all of the daggers that GLA uses and turn them into weapons for the THF/NIN or just leave them in there and have GLA daggers and THF/NIN daggers exist as completely separate entities that just so happen to have the same name and similar models).

one thing I'd like to see is ataccs having different effects when used when flanked/behind. In lay mans terms certain ataccs could be used regardless of position but had different properties based upon your positioning giving you the option to either flank or go behind.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

While I can't find a link for it at the moment (and would be quite glad if someone else could find it), I recall an interview that gets referenced quite often in these discussions where he talks about being able to turn GLD into DRK by removing the additional enmity modifiers from the attacks and discussing the likely implementation of a "real" dagger wielding class/job (GLD can already use daggers, but they're just really low level swords arbitrarily called daggers). The first was in reference to how feasible, from a development standpoint, it would be to add a new job for an existing class that deviates from its originally intended role; in his example,

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http://www.secrets-eorzea.com/en/new...rets-of-eorzea

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• The Secrets of Eorzea (SOE)

Will you make the second jobs very different from their class or first job? For example, the Dark Knight is a very aggressive job and since you seem to want it to become the second Gladiator job (This has never been confirmed but since Yoshi-P always uses it as an example, you never know... ), don't you think Gladiator's abilities are in contradiction with his style?

• Naoki Yoshida (NY):

I see what you mean. We created the system, but we do not necessarily need to follow it all the time. For example, let’s say that the Dark Knight is the second Gladiator job (attention, it is still not a confirmation), when you get its job stone at level 30, all acquired Gladiator skills will certainly be modified to better fit the image of the Dark Knight.

It was just to give an example to explain that we are not going to destroy how players consider different classes / jobs. It could be an interesting way to introduce future classes / jobs. We will consider your concerns on this issue, rest assured.
This should make things more interesting, don't you think?

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Maybe this?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Maybe this?

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That looks kind of right, but I distinctly recall the references to daggers and the whole gladiator/thief-type class being in there as well as the specific mention of removing the high enmity modifiers from GLA abilities when turning into DRK as opposed to just a thematic tweak (which is what it looks like he was saying to some extent since it was referring to "style" and "image"). I don't presume to have a perfect memory, though.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

The THF>NIN model that we THF-as-class people follow still fulfills the archetype of the "dagger-wielding/rogue-type" just as well as the ROG>THF model so you can't really draw any conclusions concerning Yoshi's position on the job/class dichotomy from that statement.

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And again, I can picture a mass of pissed off people if it comes to be that THF will be a class and NIN would be a job built off it. Garnering negative reactions by denying people something they wanted is not a good idea. This isn't like cannoneer, necromancer or puppetmaster that appeared less than a handful of times in the whole series. We're talking about one of the mainstay jobs and one of the starter Final Fantasy jobs, to boot.

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It's less about perfect parity and more about realizing that "crapton of DPS jobs and very few tanks/healers" is a really bad way to set up class selection for roles. I firmly believe that one of the major reasons that tanks and healers are so rare in *every* game is because the options are so slim compared to DPS;

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People don't roll tank or heals because it is a lot of responsibility, and most people aren't up for that.

Options -or lack thereof- may have a hand in it, but it isn't the sole reason behind people wanting to DPS.