Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

The way you brought class to class was stupid, comparing the dps from both class without taking everything in consideration is pointless.
DRG's raid DPS was estimated at around 300, probably more depending of your BRD other factors.
So yeah, you might have technically the same DPS as a 75% SAM while being a 95% DRG but actually you're bringing raid DPS and that's the kind of things that makes NIN better than any other melee.
That argument was bs.

Now I never showed any kind of agreement towards what he said, in fact I don't really understand what he means, if he wanna play DRG weither it gets buffed or not then ok, I don't care, yet he surely wont perform like a SAM that's for sure.
The high risk low reward part is total bullshit tough, you're right.
I can see what he means though. It is true that optimization became slightly harder while not being really rewarding, yet there's no "risks" at all, I mean, fight's transition will ruine your whole Lotd mechanics yet it has nothing to do with "taking risks", you can't do anything about it aside maybe early triggering Lotd which would just be optimizing not taking risk.

Tbh, calling out someone on his logs while being at the same lvl sounds weird to me.
Not even gonna mention that having high logs doesnt mean that you're a smart person.

The class needs a serious buff at the minimum. Arguing against that is basically saying you enjoy being worthless compared to other melee, and that you will intentionally hinder your static by playing as one.

A rework of some of the skills would be ideal, but unlikely

So far the only relevant proposition I've seen were:
-10% disembowel, additional +5% means at least +150dps for a BRD and 100dps for yourself, RDM got piercing dmg too.
-Not losing eyes if Botd fades, just stop with this being punitive there's no point, balance this by making Botd required to stack eyes.
-Mirage dive double weave should be a thing.

To me there's no point in getting more Lotd, the way it is right now is kinda good, it lines up with B4B.

What class vs class argument are you even talking about? Nobody is talking about utility, all I said is that you wont outdps a SAM and to stop acting high and mighty because his logs aren't even good. My logs have nothing to do with this, as I didn't claim anything about my ability nevertheless when I made that comment, I was 12 allstar points higher and my points wont change as I'm not playing the class much at the moment. If a boxer says that he would beat anyone in the weight class above him despite evidence proving otherwise, I don't have to be a boxer to validate my opinion.

I honestly don't know what exactly you are arguing against, but it seems to just want to argue for the sake of it. The reason I addressed YOUR comment is because creator logs don't have any relevancy when discussing the performance of a class or the ability a player has to use said class. Your pseudo elitism has no merit because creator was a joke tier. I could easily say 'duuuh no-ones logs matter because they aren't from gordias when der was no padding!!!!' but logs from 3.x have nothing to do with how people have performed with a new battle system. The best player could be a blue percentile player right now for whatever reason; even if we know they are the best player there is nothing to show that they are still good because there is no proof.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

No, you wont because a 75th percentile SAM is the same as a 95th percentile DRG.

I've also seen you're logs and sorry to say, they are not very impressive. Feel free to conjure up any excuse or report me for slander of whatever but you shouldn't say things with such conviction that you haven't proven first.

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https://puu.sh/wIFwn/8b6a481d92.jpg


Tbh, you're doing it again, I didnt brought my logs nor anything related to me, I just implied that you were at the same lvl as he is, so denying him for being "average" is stupid.
Though, yeah, better check primal than creator, it was so easy, so easy that you were only average.
The "new battle system" arguement is funny.

It's like you are ignoring what they said. They specifically mentioned dps. I countered what they said about dps. Utility has no place in the argument because they didn't say 'Me and my utility will wipe the floor with the average sam'. Comparing 2 classes DPS is completely fine. You are having a fit and getting triggered over nothing.

So, because they're being stupid not taking utility in account, you gotta be as stupid?

I'm kinda done tbh, you're the proof that anyone can do some orange logs on primals.

I didn't even bring up anything related to you, this is proof that you are getting triggered like a child over nothing.

You honestly make no sense. Creator DOES have nothing to do with the current state of the classes, and the fact that you cannot provide an explanation to why it might proves you're talking out of your ass. Every time you have brought up creator, you have just stated that yep its relevant and u must be stpuid for disagree!!!!

If you honestly think that you are superior because of your parses from creator, notorious for being much more accessible than the other tier then you are delusional. I could easily just say that you're shit because you didn't clear brute justice or have any gordias logs. Does that make any sense? Does that have ANYTHING to do with DRG not being able to provide the same personal DPS as SAM? No, but obviously you're so very smart and also godlike at this game because of your creator parses.

P.S before you try to pull any more bullshit, I played everything up to gordias on a different account. Also:

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So there's people taking primal logs as a relevant thing?

What about Creator savage?

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And

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They are relevant.
But yeah, if you think doing some orange thing on some primal ex makes you relevant enough to tell who's bad and who's not, maybe you should stop right here.

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So, first of all, you actually called me a "pseudo elitist" for literally just telling you that you might better stop calling people for "being average" while you are "average" too because it's kinda stupid.
You're the one that actually involved my logs.
Then, you really feel the need to justify what you've done in the past, yet, you were average and you still are so I don't really get the point.

Next, assuming Creator isnt relevant because the game got simplified?
Like, really?
Easier than the other tiers, yes, still, that's literally not the point.
If you were able to play to a certain lvl on some easy raid tier while class were harder (still easy though) then you're gonne bas as good now, probably even more.
Literally the same if you switch class, that's my case.
Your whole point is "creator is irrelevant the game changed", only thing that changed is class being easier now.

You keep coming with that no utility shit, according to your logic just gotta go 4 samurais.

But yeah, if you feel good with your broken logic then no problem.
Now stop calling out people that has the same lvl as you while calling other people elitist.

You just have reading comprehension issues. The first time I referenced your logs is in my last post.

I never once said utility didn't matter, but in the context of what was being argued it wasn't involved. Why can't you understand this?

I called you a pseudo elitist because you brought up creator as if it is some testament to skill when it has nothing to do with the performance of the 4.0 classes? Again, why can't you understand this? Just because you did well in creator with a class doesn't mean that you will do well in 4.0 with a class, especially if that class is weak. Is this really not common sense? Let me spell it out for you once more: Creator is not a metric to judge classes by, nor is it a metric to judge how players will currently be performing. DRG had 10% disembowel in creator, was 3rd strongest dps on a dummy and was quite favourable to bring. DRG has 5% disembowel now, is 7th on a dummy and noone wants to consider them.

It is clear that you are trying to prove something, because you are literally criticizing me for doing something that you are now doing yourself as if you want me to look at your logs and feel stupid. If what I'm doing is so wrong, then why is it fine for you to do it? I don't understand how you can't see this.

I assume english isn't your first language so there is no point in trying to explain anything because honestly you are reading what I am saying and creating a completely different argument to attack. Case in point: Bring utility into the conversation when it was quite clear that they were talking about their personal DPS as a DRG vs a SAM and then criticizing me for 'ignoring utility' even when it wasn't a part of the conversation.