So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

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Originally Posted by Snorky

This is why I am against DPS meters being freely used by anyone. I didn't ask you to monitor my DPS I didn't ask you to make sure I was doing optimal DPS. I don't want you to stick your nose in my business period. Because this is exactly how it starts, oh I just want to help give friendly advice, then it turns sour given by those who want to use the information just to beat it over someone else's head. Yes there are those people. It's not anyone else's job to monitor what I or any other player is doing unless you agree to it in advance. I think the developers are smart enough to know there are people out there who are just nasty and would use information to beat up other players. After 8 years I doubt there will be a change in their stance or SE policy. Beating a dead horse here.

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I 100% agree with this. While I understand some people's arguments about people joining things they aren't ready for or people that don't want to learn; there are also people out there that want to learn, but want to do it at their own pace or on their own without someone lording over them with some numbers saying you have to do this or else. You clipped something, fix it.

These are the types of people that have recently made me consider quitting the game again. Not the only reason, but dude does it get annoying.

Also, again, I get that there are people that don't try or want to be carried, but not everyone is that person and should not be treated that way just because that one time 3 years ago you had someone tell you "You don't pay my sub".

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

I 100% agree with this. While I understand some people's arguments about people joining things they aren't ready for or people that don't want to learn; there are also people out there that want to learn, but want to do it at their own pace or on their own without someone lording over them with some numbers saying you have to do this or else. You clipped something, fix it.

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If you want to learn at your own pace and on your own, then don't join a group of strangers or find a group where all 8 players consent to that mindset. They exist, the game also has trust dungeons/trial by which you can do whatever you want for as long as you want and no one else is involved.


I'm still struggling to see how the above is not the immediate thought process when it comes to playing in a group setting. Forcing the mindset of "I Play How I Want" onto others seems so inconsiderate to me.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Well to be fair, your performance in a group isnt just your own business, it's everyone's business.

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You are only arguing this point because you have a tool to do it for you. If this "illegal" tool wasn't available, I highly doubt you would spend your time inputting everything into Excel to see everyone's damage.

When you state your point like you have, it only adds to the other side's belief that pro-parsers are ***holes.

EDIT: That was not me calling you an ***hole, by the way. Simply stating the way you put your argument doesn't help your argument in my mind.

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Originally Posted by Euphares

If you want to learn at your own pace and on your own, then don't join a group or find a group where all 8 players consent to that mindset. They exist, the game also has trust dungeons/trial by which you can do whatever you want for as long as you want and no one else is involved.


I'm still struggling to see how the above is not the immediate thought process when it comes to playing in a group setting. Forcing the mindset of "I Play How I Want" onto others seems so inconsiderate to me.

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Just like imposing "I want you to play the way I want" is what you are doing...

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Just like imposing "I want you to play the way I want" is what you are doing...

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How is he doing that though?

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Originally Posted by kizumiayamame

How is he doing that though?

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Because as I stated earlier, not everyone is looking for a carry or to be lazy. Some people, even such as myself, will join a party to learn a fight. Maybe I didn't get a clear there, but I felt comfortable enough to move to a clear party because I now know all of the mechs and confidently feel like I can clear the content even though the party I was with was incapable of learning the mechs. By most people's definition here, I'm in the wrong because I haven't cleared the content and shouldn't be joining a clear party, but guess what, I still cleared it.

I went outside of how you wanted me to play. I didn't mold to how you wanted me to play, because one particular person doesn't make the rules. This is an online community where each individual pays a monthly subscription to be part of and only the devs/GMs should have a right to tell me how I spend my time during that subscription. This game is supposed to be fun, not like high school.

I guess my final point is this. You pay to be part of a community, not to make rules for that community. If you want to do that, I'm sure SE is hiring.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

This is why I am against DPS meters being freely used by anyone. I didn't ask you to monitor my DPS I didn't ask you to make sure I was doing optimal DPS. I don't want you to stick your nose in my business period. Because this is exactly how it starts, oh I just want to help give friendly advice, then it turns sour given by those who want to use the information just to beat it over someone else's head. Yes there are those people. It's not anyone else's job to monitor what I or any other player is doing unless you agree to it in advance. I think the developers are smart enough to know there are people out there who are just nasty and would use information to beat up other players. After 8 years I doubt there will be a change in their stance or SE policy. Beating a dead horse here.

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I have a feeling you don't really do any of the content this thread is primarily about, and are under the misapprehension that people are looking for a license to harass others in roulette content.

Most people here are primarily talking about content that contains a "hard enrage", which requires a fixed minimum amount of DPS to either defeat the boss or progress to the next phase. In content like this, it's entirely possible for a single unprepared person to fully obstruct the progress of 7 other people. Being able to identify where that problem lies is vital to the defense of your own time and energy. It's not fair to expect 7 people to simply remain in an impossible situation on behalf of someone who is inadequately prepared for content they've voluntarily joined.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Because as I stated earlier, not everyone is looking for a carry or to be lazy. Some people, even such as myself, will join a party to learn a fight. Maybe I didn't get a clear there, but I felt comfortable enough to move to a clear party because I now know all of the mechs and confidently feel like I can clear the content even though the party I was with was incapable of learning the mechs. By most people's definition here, I'm in the wrong because I haven't cleared the content and shouldn't be joining a clear party, but guess what, I still cleared it.

I went outside of how you wanted me to play. I didn't mold to how you wanted me to play, because one particular person doesn't make the rules. This is an online community where each individual pays a monthly subscription to be part of and only the devs/GMs should have a right to tell me how I spend my time during that subscription. This game is supposed to be fun, not like high school.

I guess my final point is this. You pay to be part of a community, not to make rules for that community. If you want to do that, I'm sure SE is hiring.

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You aren't even keeping a consistent argument, just selectively changing your points to fill this weird narrative that performance-based players aren't real players because only people who don't care about performance can "truly enjoy the game." This has been proven as false on multiple occasions, several times in this thread alone.



If you are joining a learning party to learn, there is no problem as long as you are at the prog point the party requires. No one reasonable has ever disagreed with this or claimed the opposite. You are quite literally lying by saying most people in this thread are claiming people can't learn.

And by the way, Duty Completion and Duty Complete are both very different parameters one can set for their PF, if the leader sets the party to Duty Completion it means that people who haven't cleared can join.


You are speaking for others and not even repeating what they have said correctly in order to create this weird delusion that other people are trying to strongarm you to play a certain way, asking people for basic participation and pulling their weight, something anyone can do easily, is not unreasonable by any means. If you acted like this in real life, people would find you weird, rightfully so.

You are correct, it is a community, therefore the community can set the standards by which individuals must conform to or be ostracized, that's how communities work. There is a reason why you aren't allowed to join savage/extreme/ultimate and just auto attack the entire time, which by your logic, would be perfectly valid to do if that's the playstyle you preferred.

The devs/gm's have the right to punish anyone they want for whatever reason they want, but that is the extent of their power over the community. Which is why players are allowed to foster the micro-communities they desire.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I don't want you to stick your nose in my business period. Because this is exactly how it starts, oh I just want to help give friendly advice, then it turns sour given by those who want to use the information just to beat it over someone else's head. Yes there are those people.

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then don't join content that requires a specific amount of dps from your role???

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

When you state your point like you have, it only adds to the other side's belief that pro-parsers are ***holes.

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by wanting accountability in high-end content and subsequently wanting to help someone that's struggling with it, the pro-parser people are ***holes?

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

You are only arguing this point because you have a tool to do it for you. If this "illegal" tool wasn't available, I highly doubt you would spend your time inputting everything into Excel to see everyone's damage.

When you state your point like you have, it only adds to the other side's belief that pro-parsers are ***holes.

EDIT: That was not me calling you an ***hole, by the way. Simply stating the way you put your argument doesn't help your argument in my mind.

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No you're performance is always everyone's business, even without a parser. Just because that information isnt easily available without a parser (not technically hidden, someone who knows the job you play well will be able to notice mistakes like dropped dots, misaligned or drifted buffs) doesnt mean your performance has no impact on the group. You should still try your best and realize that there is always room for improvement.
I actually do believe that the current solution of "dont ask, dont tell" works well considering the alternatives. No decision will be without downsides and if really needed you can always just silently kick someone from your PF as you dont need any reason at all to do that. I definitely do not want toxic people who dont know what they are doing flailing around parser numbers.