Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

Bump, because QUALITY GAMEPLAY is important to us.

Everyone who seems to be petitioning needs to to put what kind of system they are running and etc. I have stated a few times before that running this game on minimum requirements will cause you to have delays. If you are running a higher end PC then by all means you have the right to petition and complain here about that delay. However, after telling many players that the minimum requirements for running this game causes this delay, many other players have updated their PC since and no longer see this issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xystic

Everyone who seems to be petitioning needs to to put what kind of system they are running and etc.

---

I think the issue w/ the delay is related to the networking code SE is using (like we've been saying this whole time). Our PC performance isn't going to enhance the rate at which SE refreshes our position in the game. Since I'm running the recommended graphic card and probably above average specs, I'll post my PC specs and say I've always shown the positional delay on myself and everyone around me in the game.

Time of this report: 11/2/2013, 11:32:11
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8076MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 11

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 660 Ti
Display Memory: 4038 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1989 MB
Shared Memory: 2048 MB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xystic

Everyone who seems to be petitioning needs to to put what kind of system they are running and etc. I have stated a few times before that running this game on minimum requirements will cause you to have delays. If you are running a higher end PC then by all means you have the right to petition and complain here about that delay. However, after telling many players that the minimum requirements for running this game causes this delay, many other players have updated their PC since and no longer see this issue.

---

CM Storm Enforcer case with extra mega flow fan (top exhaust)
msi z77a gd65 motherboard
i5-3570k CPU
212 evo cooler
seasonic psu
GTX 760

I live about 1 hr or so away from the Montreal servers and have cable internet. I can see the delay whether the pc is in 4.2ghz OC mode or standard, same thing for the card if in OC mode or not.

The games needs fixing.




I posted this in another thread but I feel it is relevant in this one too.

I have found in many mmo when trying to discuss such issues it becomes a lost cause, it invariably always turns into a fight or pissing contest between 3 main groups.

You have group:

A - They often are not very skillful and like to blame lag and other issues on their lack of knowledge or mechanics of the game etc.

B - They are skillful, know the mechanics of the game and are able to objectively look at the game and see the issues, are often the ones starting threads wanting to get things fixed or at least get some answers.

C - You then have this last group who will deny there can be anything wrong on the game companies side and it is all your ISP, your pc, your lack of skill etc and they are unwilling to look at facts or attempt to use any common sense and refuse to admit maybe something should be done. This group also has a subset that admits even though they never ever see such problems maybe some others might but they should be able to get around the issues etc etc



Of all the groups I find group C the most annoying and frankly don't have any more credibility than group A. Group A wont admit when they mess up even if it's really obvious and as such lose credibility, group C loses credibility because they refuse to look at facts and want to lump everyone into group A and thereby make themselves look good or skillful or elite or w/e.

Group B tries to maintain some kind objectivity but more often than not the trolling and flaming from groups A and C end up making them lose it or just plain look like they are beating a dead horse.

I have never understood why group A and group C cannot go play in some other thread with each other and leave group B alone, if group B gets what they want it will not harm group A or C and would on the most part improve the game both in subs and game-play.

Bump.

1 and 45 freaking pages and we cant get a crown on this thread? Someone is avoiding the elephant in the room....

Come on se....

Bump. Other people need to help keep this on the first page.. this needs a crown.

Pinging 199.91.189.59 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=24
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=24
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=24
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=24

Ping statistics for 199.91.189.59:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 89ms, Maximum = 96ms, Average = 93ms

- But still players do this 'stop go, stop go' motion like their positions are being refreshed every other second and they rush to their new position. Also they are running in place a lot. 93ms ping isn't going to cause that.

Bump.
The problem is : when you try to avoid an aoe, you never NEVER know if you made it or not. This is unbearable, how are we suppose to enjoy pve with that handicap ? I insist, this is just not fun and stressful.

I've unsubbed for now, because there is still no PvP, casual raids and because the lag in this game is unacceptably high. I can play WoW, SWTOR or Rift without borderline game-breaking lag, but not this game.

Unless they address this issue I won't have confidence in the game, long-term. It's far too wide-spread. And it wouldn't be new, all new MMOs suffer from lag, animation delays and/or graphics engine problems. But this is pretty bad and Square is more opaque than a black hole.

Good news everyone! I found a solution - I stopped playing. Feels much better now.

Everytime I dodge Titan Landslide , I pause just before he does the actual hit thinking ... "I hope this didn't hit me". 100% of the time I dodge titan landslide , but sometimes latency will cause me to go flying in air .

I've even actually gone flying towards titan himself once because I circled out of landslide and my back was facing him . LOLOL game sucks .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knosis

Minimum = 89ms, Maximum = 96ms, Average = 93ms

- But still players do this 'stop go, stop go' motion like their positions are being refreshed every other second and they rush to their new position. Also they are running in place a lot. 93ms ping isn't going to cause that.

---

Yep game is not very nice for NZ/AUS players , any word on when this will be fixed ? Or should I just zoom out so I can watch myself get hit by ghost AOE ?

C:\ping 199.91.189.59

Pinging 199.91.189.59 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=230
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=230
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=230
Reply from 199.91.189.59: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=230

Ping statistics for 199.91.189.59:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 267ms, Maximum = 267ms, Average = 267ms

So I talked to a buddy of mine who is a game developer. Apparently, with MMOs the polling rate between client and server can't necessarily go much faster than 0.3 seconds.

Modern games with good network code actually use timestamps and even employ some predictional methods to figure out if it was actually possible for you to get out of an AOE. I'll explain:

Current FFXIV Netcode
An AOE pops up under your feet. So you run out of it. Your client sends your position to the server a couple times while you're in it, but ultimately you can't get in another positional check in time before the AOE actually hits. This is what's causing people to take damage even though they got out of it. I'll show this with an image.

http://www.woohaweb.com/aoechecks.png
Here you can see each positional update (in blue). In this case, the size of the circle is the length of time you have to get out of it (0.7 seconds). Well, if you manage to get in two positional updates, you're going to get hit by it because the 3rd positional check is going to be AFTER the AOE hits.

So how do you get around this?
You attach a time stamp to each positional check, so the server can negate latency, and it has much more information for it to make some predictions. You also will need to send some extra events to the server.

So, for example, if I send a time stamp to the server along with my position twice like in the picture above, then send a special update to the server saying "on my screen I JUST got out of it, and here's the time stamp" the server can check each timestamp and say "okay .. they moved at a speed that is indeed possible (they're not botting or hacking), it was a constant speed, then it looks like everything checks out. You have successfully avoided it! And you take no damage.

TL;DR
The client needs to send time stamps with it's position updates so that the client can make predictions on whether or not you actually could have avoided an AOE.

The only part i can agree on is not really knowing if you will be hit or not, until you see the "red line" and hear that sound of a target switching to you, but honestly if you just cant learn to dodge it is your own fault, not the developers, the dodging in this game is outrageously easy, and there are many who have no problems with it. It would be clear if a majority of the players couldn't actually dodge, but people who cant learn and adjust have no one to blame but themselves, and again i will agree there is too much uncertainty about successfully dodging an aoe or not, but that is not the problem of just being able to dodge in general. (Tl;dr : it's not the coding of the aoe's making you suck at dodging[learn to dodge])

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay9

*snip*honestly if you just cant learn to dodge it is your own fault, not the developers, the dodging in this game is outrageously easy, and there are many who have no problems with it. It would be clear if a majority of the players couldn't actually dodge, but people who cant learn and adjust have no one to blame but themselves, and again i will agree there is too much uncertainty about successfully dodging an aoe or not *snip*

---

You missed the point of the thread. It's not whether things can or cannot be dodged. It's whether you can rely on your screen indicators to be true. Titan is the major example where this is not the case. And I would say a majority of people have the issue, as a majority of people (at least going by the forums) have to move -before- he actually casts skills.

Back to the first page you go.

I just did the "esuna test", and yeah. It seems like I'm one of the people who can cast esuna while running forward. While pretty neat, I don't think it is intended.... I really hope they'll answer to this issue rather quickly, since there are already two long topics and one very long topic about this very issue and all the problems it causes. For example avoiding aoe-attacks. (1 sec is pretty unforgiving,,)
(posted this on all three topics for bump)

C&P from the other thread.

I am going to sound angry, but I assure you, I am not.
I am mainly concerned for a game I love and value a great deal currently.

Lets put it this way: If I've played GW2/TERA/WOW/AION, etc. Even some Korean MMO, Blade & Soul in this case (You can imagine the huge amount of ping; over 600 MS in some cases, 250-400 with third party help) and I do not experience this skill input delay and general delay (0.3 sec from what's been gathered/calculated) in any of those games, what makes it OK for this game to have this problem, when I have a 40-80 MS ping?

There is no way I'll accept anyone walking up to me and telling me this problem doesn't exist, when clearly it exists and has persisted for many BETA phases of the game and made it to release.
If this community doesn't wake up and voice their concerns, we'll be in for more problems/trouble as game content continues to progress/elevate in difficulty as expansions come and go.

Do you know what, im resigned to taking landslides to the face when im dozens of yalms outside the area, plumes that damage me when i moved even before other players who stayed later in the plume than me dont take damage. Im also resigned to the fact that as much as i love Final Fantasy XIV i might have to cancel my sub and switch to a game where i dont have to be pyschic to predodge in advance all the time due to whats on my screen not matching up.

This issue is making it hard to even want to log on. It has managed to overshadow all the really good stuff ffxiv has to offer.

My two gil.

I've thus far done one run of HM Titan with some FCmates, so I wanna preface this message with that. That said, that first run had five seperate attempts.

One of my FC has utterly given up on the Titan step of the Relic as a result of not only being utterly clear of Weight, but for the reaction of other players in the group blaming him for being unattentive. Having been blasted off the side by Landslide while well clear, I know for a fact we were experiencing latency.

It would appear, until there is actual verbal agreement from this dev team to the contrary, that you, the devs of this game, are willing to let the community eat itself alive between those who have experienced and have video proof of latency and those who are willing to shrug it off as "bad players are bad" while not doing a thing to attempt to fix or even acknowledge the issue.

Prove us wrong. Or we will walk.

Fix it SE!

What do we want?

NON CANADIAN BASED EUROPE SERVERS!

When do we want it?

Sometime in the near future would be acceptable!

Seriously though Canada is a part of North America, come on SE.

Here's a new contribution to this topic: Not only do we discuss lag and how you get hit by mechanics that you clearly dodged... But we discuss the fact that once you dodge the "indicator" you can run through the mechanic itself and take no damage/effects.

The feel this gives off is that we are dodging red circles and cones, there's no need to dodge the actual explosions and lazers, they are harmless!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...net-code/page1

Signed, liked, fix it SE.

Bump.

SE I'm not allowed to dodge Titans plumes so why should you be allowed to dodge the question?

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]
(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Jeff>ping 184.107.107.176

Pinging 184.107.107.176 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 184.107.107.176: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=52
Reply from 184.107.107.176: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=52
Reply from 184.107.107.176: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=52
Reply from 184.107.107.176: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 184.107.107.176:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 31ms

C:\Users\Jeff>pathping 184.107.107.176

Tracing route to 184.107.107.176 over a maximum of 30 hops

0 JeffsBeast [192.168.0.3]
1 142.254.152.145
2 gig2-5.lkgnwilkgn.wi.rr.com [24.160.229.158]
3 tge1-7-0-9.milzwift-ccr01.midwest.rr.com [65.29.45.102]
4 ae-6-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.206]
5 ae-2-0.a0.buf00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.42]
6 if-17-0.tcore1.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net [63.243.129.21]
7 if-22-2.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net [64.86.79.1]
8 if-3-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.45]
9 66.198.96.58
10 te7-4.dr9.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.110]
11 72.55.128.44
12 184.107.107.176

Computing statistics for 300 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 JeffsBeast [192.168.0.3]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 8ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 142.254.152.145
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 8ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% gig2-5.lkgnwilkgn.wi.rr.com [24.16
0.229.158]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 13ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% tge1-7-0-9.milzwift-ccr01.midwest.
rr.com [65.29.45.102]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 15ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ae-6-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com [66.
109.6.206]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 14ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ae-2-0.a0.buf00.tbone.rr.com [66.1
09.1.42]
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 15ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-17-0.tcore1.CT8-Chicago.as6453.
net [63.243.129.21]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 14ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-22-2.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.
net [64.86.79.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 32ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-3-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.
net [66.198.96.45]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 33ms 99/ 100 = 99% 99/ 100 = 99% 66.198.96.58
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% te7-4.dr9.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.
110]
0/ 100 = 0% |
11 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 72.55.128.44
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 30ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 184.107.107.176

Trace complete.

this right here is proof that it is not SE's fault, and im sick and tired of hearing people complain about the .3 positional update. Its clear that it is directly related to the clients ISP/location where they live. Ive said it a hundred times, i dont have problems dodging anything EVER, and its not SE's fault for any of the problems people claim to be having. It also seems like a lot of the people who claim to have these problems are located in the same states, which again, proves its not SE's fault

The problem actually consists of 2 major parts.

First part is really connectivity. EU servers based in Canada are making EU players suffer from high network latency which can't be fixed by any means besides creating a dedicated EU datacenter. This is really expensive and requires both new hardware AND new office with new people. Would be a hard decision but I would go for it as SE cause because of it they are effectively losing EU subscribers.

The second and not the least part is the game design. The thing that really cosfuses people is the "animation lag", which is not the lag but a designed delay. I'll explain.

The boss has a cast (with a castbar) which is marked on the ground with a red area. At the end of the cast the attack should happen. What we are seeing is the red zone disappears and the boss actually starts his attack animation (which can be as long as 1.5 secs) and in the end of animation the attack happens dealing damage anf other bads like pushback in Titan's case. The thing is that the list of people effected by the attack is calculated right in the end of cast so people really have the animation delay to roam freely and get the attack when they are pretty far from the red zone.

The later should be definitely fixed by making the animation sync with cast bar and the effect be applied right when it should. So many skills are really effected by this "feature" that I can't even imagine PvP.

One more feature of FFXIV servers is that they do not really process data in a real time. They are doing internal cycles that process data which causes many consequences like ability delays and unpredictable DoT damage which do not tick fixed amount of times but do tick based on how many server cycles to actually fit in DoT's duration and it really differs from time to time.

While I like the FFXIV game very much I must admit that technically it is a disaster. I am patiently waiting for SE to even mention fixes for these misdesigns but do not currently see any. Probably I should get back to RIFT raiding and stop any efforts here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XainTheGreat

Lalalalalalalala...

I live in the datacenter and I'm not having problems :D

---

Ok! Your post was obviously very constructive. You don't have problems so therefore everyone else in this thread must be lying!!! Fanboy rage lalala.

Btw I'm not paying/playing anymore. Salutation!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XainTheGreat

this right here is proof that it is not SE's fault, and im sick and tired of hearing people complain about the .3 positional update. Its clear that it is directly related to the clients ISP/location where they live. Ive said it a hundred times, i dont have problems dodging anything EVER, and its not SE's fault for any of the problems people claim to be having. It also seems like a lot of the people who claim to have these problems are located in the same states, which again, proves its not SE's fault

---

Hey LOL thanks for the laugh dude but how does your trace PROOVE ANYTHING at all???

Learn how to watch a video fanboi if it wasn't square who paid for the awful net code who was it? If it wasn't SE who decided to lump all the servers together who was it? This FAULT has been in the game since 1.0 beta 1.0 release 2.0 beta and now 2.0 release it's still there and this game will always be a flaming pile of shit until it is fixed. Now i suggest you go white knight some other topic where you wont look like such a twa...........

@XainTheGreat

That doesn't actually prove anything. At all. But a fine effort on big-boy posting.

The game is littered with problems and inconsistencies in it's net code and client->server synchronisation.

Any idiot can ping a server (you did), but pinging is hardly indicative of what the game actually does at runtime (pro tip: games do more than ping <ip>)

Secondly you live 800 miles away from the servers (Wisconsin, right?) - that's a decent distance. Try 3300 miles away and several additional servers.

But wait? Proxies! So then try a proxy, which many of us have. It's still not right. You know why? It's not the connection; it's the coding.

Also that's an embarrassing PC name, Jeff.

In France we have a 130 ~ 180 ping to the server, it should not be a problem. But yes a 0.3s position check is a real problem because sum it with the ping = half a second where the server does not know where you *really* stand.

Signed, fix this or all that is going to happen is people will pay for titan wins or get friends to carry them, if thats what u want SE then fine, we'll wait for new raid to come out in 2.1 then gear up enough in that so titan is doable without having to worry about getting hit a few times by your stupid 0.3 delay, funny thing is during last beta that was 1.5 and they thought that make for good testing, this game is failing, burning and falling just like version 1.0, a few dedicated fan-boys are doing titan hundreds of times and eventually getting lucky, talking about people with the delay issue, if you dont have the problem, your input really is not needed, i live in the uk, god knows the distance i am from the server, but i hate feeling like a bad player and people wanting me replaced because of your mess up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XainTheGreat

snip

---

Thats nice connection you have there. Now go and make video of you casting esuna or mounting while moving and im 100% sure even you will not interupt it before 60% or 70% of that casting bar. Thats more than half a second delay. If you call that there is no problem at all and that its all ISP/routing fault its your first online game ever and think its normal or you are extremely insensitive to lag/delay or how you want to call that server polling rate.

And for your information i live in Czech Rep., have 100ms ping and 11 hops to server (you cant get much better from here). I have absolutely no problem dodging titan but im not blind like you and see problem when there is one.

edit:
Tracing route to 199.91.189.46 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 6 ms 4 ms 3 ms ip-77-240-186-193.netdatacomm.cz [77.240.186.193]
2 3 ms 2 ms 6 ms bg1.netdatacomm.cz [176.74.128.33]
3 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms ge-0-0-0-2.cz-brn-pop1-rb1.net.upc.cz [77.48.21.89]
4 7 ms 8 ms 9 ms cz-pra-pop1-rb3-vla109.net.upc.cz [84.116.222.37]
5 6 ms 9 ms 6 ms 84-116-131-153.aorta.net [84.116.131.153]
6 8 ms 9 ms 10 ms ge-0-1-0.prg11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.90.25]
7 105 ms 106 ms 105 ms xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [141.136.107.125]
8 109 ms 105 ms 110 ms ormuco-gw.ip4.tinet.net [216.221.156.110]
9 106 ms 106 ms 110 ms 192.34.76.2
10 109 ms 110 ms 108 ms 199.91.189.234
11 106 ms 106 ms 105 ms 199.91.189.46

Trace complete.

Posted this in one of the many other threads about this issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyUvYJZQ3I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ilitirit

Posted this in one of the many other threads about this issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyUvYJZQ3I

---

You totally weren't zoomed out. Obv the problem ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

So yeah, this game is unplayable on Myth Tome reset day. I'm getting hit by lag spikes that last five-ten seconds every ten seconds, just like last week (after the hotfix, so... what the hotfix fixed broke something that makes the game unplayable on a certain day). My friends wanted me to go as SCH for a Titan HM run and... yeah. I could not do anything.

Imagine having this happen: Titan drops bombs, lag spike happens and then nothing happens for fifteen seconds. Suddenly lag ends and apparently we're on the Heart Phase. Somehow, I survived the explosion and Geocrush. I was then knocked off the edge by a Landslide while I was lag spiking again... apparently (one moment I was up on the platform with everyone, suddenly everyone stopped moving... and then I'm KO'd on the ground below).

---

I was getting major rubber banding all day yesterday. Were the servers taking a dump?

Maybe all the people who left their Myth runs until the last minute decided to all jump on at the same time (I didn't play FFXIV today)? I do recall last week, before Myth Reset day, that I was rubber banding every so often. It eventually stopped about 4-5 hours before JPM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Maybe all the people who left their Myth runs until the last minute decided to all jump on at the same time (I didn't play FFXIV today)? I do recall last week, before Myth Reset day, that I was rubber banding every so often. It eventually stopped about 4-5 hours before JPM.

---

You could be right on the money.

The overall server lag that occurs on certain times is a different issue than the lag people talk about. I had times where I can see Demon Wall finish casting Repel, and didn't get pushed back until 5 seconds later. That's the server being overloaded and every game has that problem when traffic is way too high. The lag people tag about is persistent. Do the running Esuna or mount chocobo test (autorun on, just keep casting the said spell) at any time you want. You'll notice the spell always casts at least 50% no matter when you tried this, so it takes about 0.5s before your client realizes you can't cast a spell while running even though the action is actually impossible. That's the part that is unique to this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astarica

Do the running Esuna or mount chocobo test (autorun on, just keep casting the said spell) at any time you want. You'll notice the spell always casts at least 50% no matter when you tried this, so it takes about 0.5s before your client realizes you can't cast a spell while running even though the action is actually impossible.

---

Atleast 50%? Man I get consistently to around 0.30-0.10 seconds left of full 1 second cast before it interrupts. In fact yesterday was abnormally laggy and I managed to actually run and mount without interrupt. Every now and then the run and mount caused a 90k.