Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by javid

I'll be nice...

how many cures can you cast in 30 secs??? Let's assume a 2.0 GCD; in 30 sec you can cast 15 cures!! THATS a ton!!

ok............

how many ticks from HoTs can you cast in 30 secs on a 8 man party?? lets assume a 2.0 GCD: one medica II +11 regens; for total tick count within the 30 sec of.... 133 F#$KING TICKS

....NOW......which of the two looks more abusive? 15 attempts at getting a lily/confession in 30sec? or 133 attempts at getting a lily/confession in 30sec? ALSO... which of the two actually casted MORE GCDS?? 15 CURES GCDs? OR 12 GCDs on regen and medica combined???

DUDE ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE......not even......close......

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Then don't do them off ticks? Do it on application, like Cure. I literally gave that suggestion.

Please give us back Stoneskin and Divine Seal.

All I want is for Lillies and Confession stacks to not scale off our two least used healing actions in the whole kit. Less RNG would help, but as long as it functionally makes sense in the playstyle that WHM is best at (regens and abilities taking care of most of the healing) then I'm satisfied.

This is really disappointing at first I was okay with the changes but seeing what AST, and SCH are getting, it's clear to me that whm is screwed compared to the other healers. SCH, and AST already had big egos.

why make it to were we only get lilies buy only cure 1 and 2 if we're gonna be dpsing during down time why not make stone4 another way to gain lilies?

and i hate that i have to use a stat that I fukking HATE on WHM (critical hit rate) to lower the CDS of assize and tetragrammaton

WHM doesn't need more healing skills, we need utilities! unless there is a fight that needs so much healing that a whm is the only option more healing is moot.
which i know won't happen because SCH and AST would bitch to know end.

and don't get me starting how whm got it's kit stripped. Really SE, you're gonna take away skills like divine seal, shroud of saints, esuna and give'em to SCH, and AST.
and removing Stonekin from the game was just a stupid move.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

Please give us back Stoneskin and Divine Seal.

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I totally agree with this. Why in the hell did they remove Stoneskin from WHM when we was already going to suffer with the LEAST amount of spells after the shafting that is the new Cross-Role system? Give us Divine Seal back. Give us Stoneskin back. Give us our JOB back Square, before you utterly destroy it and leave it for the vultures for this entire raid tier.

I am really glad SE did this! If I had to emphasize what I do not like about the changes its that White Mage are now so reliant on procs when White Mage is suppose to be the reliable healer.

I am also not partial to the fact everything is tied to cure I and cure II. White mages have big fun healing kits and I don't want to feel punished for using my whole arsenal. I would love to see confession stacks work off all direct heals including aoe, then maybe raise the CD of Planetary Indulgence.

The most important point I'd like to be addressed, even more than the randomness of white mage's new mechanics, is that the cooldown reduction effect of the lilies is not something that's at all beneficial to skilled healers within the context of savage raiding or extreme trials.

Because of the scripted nature of PVE in this game, a skilled healer learns the fight's rotation and tailors their CD usage to the incoming damage and mechanics. Because all of our cooldown usage is planned in advance, even at the maximum of 3 lilies, reducing a cooldown by 20% won't be long enough to afford us another use before we've next planned to use it. This means we have to simply leave it unused until it's needed, and have gained nothing from our mechanic.

This isn't to say the randomness isn't a mistake as well, but the fact that this job mechanic seems wholly tailored to PVP at the exclusion of PVE is the biggest issue with it. In order to be beneficial for high level PVE, the mechanic must be something reliable that our fight rotation can be planned around, or it must power something "extra" that isn't part of our normal CD lineup or healing toolkit, not unlike astrologian's card mechanic.

I love my WHM....

• But I understand that the EZ MODE HEALER, should be able to clear all content, which it does WITH EZZ by comparison,
  
• cd/gcds should be extremely simple & forgiving, which they are
  
• And the gap between healer functionality should be marginal
  
• we're talking a 3-5% CURRENT raid content dps difference. Who knows where the healing factor difference is?:confused:

The skill ceiling for WHM is definitely lower than AST's and SCH's, so its not unreasonable to make their overall output to be a HAIR longer(...okay maybe 2 hairs once we get to top ilv raid gear, precise execution, max ilv SPEED FARMS:mad::mad:).

If you want them to equalize WHM with the other healers they will have to make it more sophisticated. And the truth be told a lot of you

• 1) Can't efficiently manage that amount of sophistication (if you could....then go play AST- there is your sophisticated whm!!!)
• 2) Some of you COULD manage the added attention to detail but rather not be bothered with such a cumbersome system as AST/SCH.

Face the facts:cool: WHM is easy and reliable that's its UTILITY!!!

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

Then don't do them off ticks? Do it on application, like Cure. I literally gave that suggestion.

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UUUUHHHH.... you do know over the span of a fight you apply more cures than medica II and regen COMBINED.....


OH?? you not convinced?? here's a link to FFlogs, pick any content: dungeons, 24 man, raids, etc; go to WHM skills and there you'll find all the skills used and how many used.
https://www.fflogs.com/

Here is one example of a Sophia EX fight! We can all agree sophia is a pretty heavy AOE raid dmg fight no??? https://www.fflogs.com/reports/VwD4C...aling&source=1

This one examples demonstrates 41 cures (1 &2s) to 23 regens & medicaII.... so changing it to
HoT APPLICATIONS would make the occurrence even less likely than keeping it on cures. With FFLogs you have thousands upon thousands of examples to gauge the situation.

AND...
if SE made it regen/medica II application based, SE would have to make sure you can't get an additional proc by overriding your original regen/medica II; which would be a BAD THING!! how many times are we perfect at letting the first regen always fall off b4 applying the next? or during a long aoe sequence how often do we clip maybe 1 or 2 sec off the old medica II with a fresh medica II?? In each of these occurrences you'd lose a proc chance. Or if they did not negate overriding applications then ppl would sit there spamming regens and medica over and over their originals trying to get procs....

In case it wasn't incredibly obvious from the general consensus of us players, White Mage players and not; the Lily system is pretty atrocious to say the least. There is NO logic in gating and tying our hands to our two most basic healing spells, whether you thought it helped realise WHM as a "pure healer" or not, that is irrelevant. ANY White Mage player can and will tell you that our most versatile and efficient spells are in the form of Regens, and the Cure spells are a last resort or situational to our plausible at best. Give us utility. Give us a reason NOT to revert and devolve into an embarrassing shade of our Job, a healer that IRONICALLY can only use it's most powerful and recent spells if it uses its most weakest, and thats besides the RNG, hah.
Please, fix this.

To the devs, if you want the majority of the population using this thread, please sticky it in the General forum. With the other threads gone, people are replacing them. Make some sort of announcement there so all of your work merging isn't wasted.

The only thing I really wish to be added is a proc rate on hot ticks, heavily reduced (probably 1/20 instead of 1/5) for lilies, confession and the cd reductions. Some additional party wide buffs that allow us to help party damage would also be nice.

I have a really big problem with the "removal" of Stoneskin and "addition" of Divine Benison....

Divine Benison is just a cheap cooldown, Lily consuming, replacement for Stoneskin.

Stoneskin used to take 18% damage then was nerfed to 10% and now will be removed.

Divine Benison is a shield that absorbs 15% of a single targeted players health bar damage.

Why not just buff Stoneskin for us?!

I would also like to have a toggle on whether or not Lilies are consumed.

I don't need to use Tet more because I'm not a horrid WHM but sometimes I do use it on big pulls.

Why should I be forced into the Lily consumption?

Confession is an interesting concept. But being random and lasting only 30s might make it to be unreliable. And you simply lose it if you let it fall off. It should give you something back when its gone like DRK's Darkest Night shield that appearently gives you Blood Gauge regardless if its broken or just wears out. Something like giving a sure lilly when it falls off or healing the target for half of the Confession stacks' potency would be cool. Something like "It heals the target by 100 potency for each Confession stacks when effects expire." And adjust Plenary's potencies accordingly.

Divine Benison is strong and would be an amazing skill but appearently can only be used if you have lillies? That's so weird. Also ability recast reducing based on randomness was already considered bad during all of Heavensward and that is why people treat Spear as the worst AST card. To sum up about lillies. If 20% cooldown reduction was something actually good people would use Spear and they never ever did unless they had no other choice since AST debut.

Also the 20% chance to reduce cds only after a critical heal lands is so bad. It's so unreliable. ACN currently have a trait that works just like this but on pet criticals, in a whole raid night of three or more hours you get that proc less than 10 times during the WHOLE NIGHT. Its realistic chance of happening is as low as getting that people will ignore it even exists just like they do with Enhanced Pet actions on SMN and SCH right now.

In the end, every Cure and Cure II can give the WHM a random something and this itself isn't a bad concept. The issue is that the effects you can get are not very good themselves. It could be extended to Medica though.

Why do we want the best healing class even more OP where it is simply going to get nerf down?
I do not get how so many failed to understand how strong these changes are to WHM.
1) They are not doing the most damage out of all 3 healers (Even more since AST has to waste time drawing cards, since lost a spell could weave it with)
2) Why does everyone act like you have to get up to 3 lilies? They didn't increase the CD of older skills so why have 3? If you throw a fast cure/cure 2 on the tank you might get a free 15% shield or 400 pot cure to top them off even more
3) Same again for Confessions? It is simply going to be another free heal on the tank if you get a proc you're not trying to get 3 all the time. No point in trying to build it up as an AoE take it as another free instant cast heal!
4) Given that they now have so many oGCD they can dps longer then both SCH and AST. While both of them have to sit there spending time healing part members.
5) They can keep MT up for so long at the start of the fight that allows both Healers just able to spam their DPS
6) Thin Air is stupid strong PoM + TA for DPS/AoE DPS/Ressing
7) Have to rely less on other assisting them for mana. SCH already has a huge mana cost to DPS now, AST is a little cheaper but not by much in terms of mana. Though with Assize and TA can last longer then other 2. Might even be able to not take Core Class mana regen skill.

Think of it this way fight starts you have 3 lilies and 3 con stacks on MT. Takes some damage you shield then give the free cure 3 on MT to top off. After that use Bene since lost 2 mins on CD want to use it more during the fight now! Tank takes some high damage again simply use Tetra. Can also use Asylum/Assize to help deal with AoE party might take. Never once needing to cast a heal way far into the fight if damage is the same as it is now!


What do ast bring now still just balance? Since people only care about dps lady is a wasted card. They trip draw can be worthless as well. We know people care only about their own dps and well that is the only reason they will want AST so they can get a balance. Other then that class offers nothing ~_~ Please buff AST first since weakest of the 3 healers now!

AST has a 900 potency aoe heal that with class action skills is around 970.

Absolutely no combination of WHM skills reach that level of healing.

AST is head and shoulders above the other two healers.

My opinion is I don't see the lily system being bad really. The numbers seem somewhat low or they should proc off a couple more heals so lily generation has the potential to continue in situations other than single target healing. The idea behind plenary indulgence is solid too imo. The only change here is the heal should fire off from the one with the stack of confessions and then be a standard aoe unless medica/medica 2 are allowed to proc confessions. I also think stoneskin should be returned to the game Divine benison changed to a small utility buff for the mages. Maybe like they can give somone a 5% damage and haste buff(i.e.both skill and spell speed)

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

AST is head and shoulders above the other two healers.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

AST has a 900 potency aoe heal that with class action skills is around 970.

Absolutely no combination of WHM skills reach that level of healing.

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900 Potency that takes 10 seconds to go off! If you have time can simply use Asylum to top group off >.>
Also Asylum heals more then their 900 Potency heal xD
1 Asylum healed for 13,642 and well had to use 950 potency (Cure 2 + Assize) = 12,989
If you do not have time still have Asylum+Assize or simply one of their 3 AoE spells xD
Also what if AoE is nonstop? What if the boss cast 4 mega holy back to back to back to back? That would destroy the AST where WHM will simply laugh and not use 1 mp to keep party up ^.^

They only bring balance and nothing else. xD

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Originally Posted by 13unny

What do ast bring now still just balance? Since people only care about dps lady is a wasted card. They trip draw can be worthless as well. We know people care only about their own dps and well that is the only reason they will want AST so they can get a balance. Other then that class offers nothing ~_~ Please buff AST first since weakest of the 3 healers now!

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You want more buffs on top of the buffs they already have planned to ast? Troll

TLDR;
The Lily system appears to be pretty useless. There is no reason to go out of your way to generate lilies in combat. WHM's lack of utility makes it a less than ideal choice for content that could be ideal for generating lilies. Even if you do manage to generate lilies, it is likely to provide little, if any benefit.

Explanation
My initial impression of the Lily system is that it is going to offer very little, if any benefits to WHM for 3 reasons:

Healing Downtime
This game has quite a bit of healing downtime in most content.
If your options are:

• Deal Damage
• Do Nothing
• Overheal

Overheal is the worst and most wasteful option in the list. There really is no reason to actively try to build a stack of Lillies during combat. For the 'pure heal' healers, overhealing wastes MP and generates unnecessary enmity. For the veteran DPS oriented healers, building lilies via cure I and cure II is a dps loss.

No Raid Utility
While it's probably not a good ideal to try to build lilies during combat, savage content could potentially be designed in such a way to warrant substantial amounts of cure I & IIs for lily generation. However, WHM's lack of raid utility and AST buffs have made WHM a less than ideal choice for endgame content.

Healing in FFXIV is more about timing than HPS
As mentioned earlier there does not appear to be any reason to actively try to build lily stacks during combat. However, let's assume for the sake or argument that we are in content wherein the inbound dps is designed in a way that will allow the WHM to build Lilies.
When impacting a skill with a 1 min cooldown:
* the 1st lily: 2.4sec recast reduction
* the 2nd lily: an additional 3.6 second reduction
* the 3rd lily: an additional 6 second reduction
Basically, if you use a 1min cd with 3 lilies, you must use that cooldown again within 6 seconds of it becoming available, to have gained any benefit from that 3rd lily. In a game where using the right skill at the right time is essential... this is a pretty narrow window. Will I need cooldown X exactly 48-54 seconds from now? You could always burn a skill like assize for the damage + MP or tetra to save a cure II cast I guess... but in the end this lily system becomes a weak MP management system that is likely to only be somewhat useful in content that is better suited for AST.

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Originally Posted by 13unny

900 Potency that takes 10 seconds to go off! If you have time can simply use Asylum to top group off >.>
If you do not have time still have Asylum+Assize or simply one of their 3 AoE spells xD
Also what if AoE is nonstop? What if the boss cast 4 mega holy back to back to back to back? That would destroy the AST where WHM will simply laugh and not use 1 mp to keep party up ^.^

They only bring balance and nothing else. xD

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Anyone who sincerely thinks AST of all classes needs a buff has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Or they're just a troll, that would be an easier pill to swallow than to see someone legitimately think WHM is in a better place than AST...

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Originally Posted by Okashii

You want more buffs on top of the buffs they already have planned to ast? Troll

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I wanted to switch from WAR to WHM after seeing changes!! Sadly for static to many people wanted to switch also to WHM so I am going pally!! Say something worth while though or why even talk? I thought this was a place to talk about what really is happening(kinda, since no clue what raids might look like...)

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Originally Posted by 13unny

900 Potency that takes 10 seconds to go off! If you have time can simply use Asylum to top group off >.>
If you do not have time still have Asylum+Assize or simply one of their 3 AoE spells xD
Also what if AoE is nonstop? What if the boss cast 4 mega holy back to back to back to back? That would destroy the AST where WHM will simply laugh and not use 1 mp to keep party up ^.^

They only bring balance and nothing else. xD

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Is it honestly that hard to wait 10 seconds for it to go off?

Cast, tank does big pull, entire party gets 900+ potency heal.

Then, SCH gets one that auto casts once the target hits 50% health and it heals for 650+ potency.

WHM has been gutted.

We have to use 4/5 class action selection to get back what we have had since 2.X and the fifth for Swiftcast and even then we will be missing actions like Stoneskin.

All I can do is laugh at anyone who doesn't see how overpowered SCH and especially AST is compared to WHM.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

Why not just buff Stoneskin for us?!

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Because it appears they're again afraid of increasing hp values. They nerfed Stoneskin in HW because of it, and maybe decided to just remove the skill because if SS surpassed in amount mitigated the amount that Cure II restored, it would likely become the spell we would spam because it effectively would heal more for the same mana cost, while never having overheal because its a shield. That said, I'm not happy with this specific part of the changes if only because it makes Benison feel like we're only getting Stoneskin back instead of feeling like a new skill. That's actually a gripe I have with Plenary as well, which feels like a more confusing version of Tetra than anything else.

What if they gave us back SS, call it something water-y like Aquaveil, and made it scale with %MP that the WHM has (and either leave Benison as is or replace it)? It wouldn't be overly effective on tanks this way compared to the rest of the party, and I'm not sure but I think mana pool doesn't tend to increase as much as hp over the patches, or at least it makes the shield a thing we can optimize our gear for.

I agree with what most have said in this thread. The lily system seems pointless and seems as if we will never get the full amount of lilies as many people use the cds where they can and dont save them. I think the cds like assylum should not use any lilies and have no cd reduction divine benison and assize should only remove 1 lily. The confession system should proc off regens too that way our plenary skill would further reinforce the "pure healer" role.

What I really want to know is will the changes (if any) be implemented before stormblood early access or launch or will it take a few patch cycles?

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Originally Posted by javid

UUUUHHHH.... you do know over the span of a fight you apply more cures than medica II and regen COMBINED.....


OH?? you not convinced?? here's a link to FFlogs, pick any content: dungeons, 24 man, raids, etc; go to WHM skills and there you'll find all the skills used and how many used.

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It can depend on the fight.

On A11S for example, it's not that uncommon (especially now with echo) to not cast a single cure the entire fight. Mostly because Cruise Chaser has just one "tank buster" that if you're good you won't actually see that much. Everything else bar auto-attacks is avoidable or raid wide AoE.

To me it seems like they didn\\'t look at the skills as a whole, didn\\'t care, or just threw darts at a board to pick what was going to happen.

I had no problem with the Stoneskin nerf because 10% was good and I\\'d just always cast Stoneskin II before big pulls or boss fights.

DB is just a cheap version of it.

Also, I do love your thoughts on a water shield.

Fluid Aura is useless without damage (when was the last time it knocked something back in a dungeon? when did Repose last work in a dungeon?) so why not replace it with that skill?

Right now, White Mages have the lowest healing potencies on every skill except Medica II. (If you need a source on that: here)

My thoughts are that confession could bridge the gap if they increase the ways they get confession stacks.

* Each time a regen naturally falls of a target, they get a stack.
* Single target cures they get a stack. Esuna gives a stack.
* Medica gives a stack to the second target on the enmity list.
* Stone spells have a 20% chance to give a stack to the closest member of the party.
* Air spells have a 33% chance to give a stack to the farthest member of the party.

Increase the Confession buff to 75s, increase the cooldown of Plenary to 30s/45s/60s. (Bolded is my thought, but haven’t ran enough thorough numbers to show what breakpoint would be needed to beat out SCH Lustrate for single target or AST Heavenly Star for multi target)


This will encourage the WHM to spend less time casting active cures and more time DPSing. As they have the highest single-target DPS of the healers, having the ability to solo heal without having to use many GCDs on heals would be highly beneficial and make them have more of a place in the current raid environment.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

Is it honestly that hard to wait 10 seconds for it to go off?

Cast, tank does big pull, entire party gets 900+ potency heal.

Then, SCH gets one that auto casts once the target hits 50% health and it heals for 650+ potency.

WHM has been gutted.

We have to use 4/5 class action selection to get back what we have had since 2.X and the fifth for Swiftcast and even then we will be missing actions like Stoneskin.

All I can do is laugh at anyone who doesn't see how overpowered SCH and especially AST is compared to WHM.

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So they have the weaker aoe heal in terms of time. No point in say SCH because they can do that for both sides....

You didn't address that the 900 potency heal is weaker in terms of WHM aoe timed heal. Or that with back to back AoE WHM will outshine AST still as they do not need to spend mana to heal really big AoE attacks back to back.

How were they gutted they lost nothing skills xD I do not think you know what the term gutted is!

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Originally Posted by JoeyBoey

I agree with what most have said in this thread. The lily system seems pointless and seems as if we will never get the full amount of lilies as many people use the cds where they can and dont save them. I think the cds like assylum should not use any lilies and have no cd reduction divine benison and assize should only remove 1 lily. The confession system should proc off regens too that way our plenary skill would further reinforce the "pure healer" role.

What I really want to know is will the changes (if any) be implemented before stormblood early access or launch or will it take a few patch cycles?

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The easiest solution would be a toggle like Cleric Stance currently is so WE decide when we use Lilies.

I want to add a small note about the second lily trait, as I don't see it being mentioned as much as the whole lily system. Please reconsider what is added here, I always preferred going spell speed over crit on WHM and a chance on a chance of the crit for this CDR just leaves a bad taste. If the lilies were ever to do something passively, this would be the trait slot that could be changed to add it, if it weren't to be baked into the base trait.

I would also want to point towards Amdapor for ideas, there is a lot of white magic in that dungeon that could be drawn from for WHM. Reverse, Reraise, Flood, 'Ancient' Aero/Holy/Stone, etc.

I'll chime in that maybe you should give WHM back their Divine Seal and Shroud of Saints? As a SCH I never really wanted either, certainly not if the result is having Aetherize nerfed in its mana returns and mana costs increased across the board in order to balance having shroud, and while divine seal is pretty cool wasn't the reason Dissipation was reduced from 40% to 20% in the first place because it was deemed "too powerful"? Because stacking those effects is exactly what we're going to do with it, plus more safe +20% shields on demand when we feel like it.

Incidentally don't feel too upset about excogitation as it's just a new variation of lustrate. Only 50 potency higher than standard lustrate (650 vs 600), it consumes an aetherize stack, and it cannot be effected by healing buffs like Largesse/Dissipation/Convalescence/Defiance/etc (it's an ability, not a spell). Its new gimmick is it triggers off the target's HP total which is fun and interesting, but since cleric stance is no longer a thing anyway it's just a lazier way of throwing out a lustrate early, especially since it only has a 30 second buff duration so no placing it on the entire party before combat.

my thoughts how to "fix" 4.0 WHM

1) we lost too many skills (to the role skill system)
out of the 10 role skills of 4.0, WHM had access to 9 of them at any time in HW, most of them without the need to cross-class them. but in SB we can only get 5 of them back (on top of completely loosing stoneskin, virus, and whatever the last cross-class slot was used for in HW), taking away way too much from us forcing us to "buy them back" from the new roll skill system with pretty much 5 mandatory role skills
solution: let us keep "sivine seal" (shares cooldown with the new role skill "Largesse"), so we can at least keep out burst heal power (we are pure healers according to SE after all) and can have a bit more options in selecting role skills without loosing who we are

2) lillies are too random and only trigger from cure 1 and 2
beeing "pure healer" does not mean we spam cure 1 and 2 all the time like crazy, most of our healing is instead done by regen and our OGCD skills with only some cure 1 and 2 thrown in as needed. this means getting lillies with only a 20% chance is just way too low and thus they are pretty much useless
solution: lillies are accumulated by

• casting cure 1 (30%)
• casting cure 2 (20%)
• casting cure 3 (100%)
• regen tick (10%)
• medica II tick (1%)

why 100% on cure 3 you ask? because due to the high mp cost spamming this skill just for lillies is a very bad idea, but good use of the skill should be rewarded (and it can be used pre-pull to quickly get 3 lillies)

3) the new trait "secret of the lillie 2" is too random
giving crit a meaning on WHM by decreasing the CD of our major OGCD skills is a good idea, but 20% chance to decrease the time by 5 seconds is way too low
solution a) make it 100% chance (makes it more reliable)
solution b) decrease the cd by 15 seconds instead of 5 (makes it more rewarding while beeing very random)

4) our new lvl 70 skill uses yet another random proc
the skill sounds nice, but it needing yet another random procc using cure 1 and 2 makes it pretty useless aside from some additional healing on the tank from time to time. i think this skill should instead uses lillies
solution: you need to have at least one lillie to execute the skill. it consumes all lillies. the healing scales the same, but based on the number of lillies you had and hits every group member in range (instead of only the ppl with a "confession" stack)

5) the new cleric stance is way too weak
plase make it 10% increase for 15 sec on 60 sec CD, thanks

thats my thoughts about it, hope i could help in making WHM 4.0 better :)

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Originally Posted by 13unny

So they have the weaker aoe heal in terms of time. No point in say SCH because they can do that for both sides....

You didn't address that the 900 potency heal is weaker in terms of WHM aoe timed heal. Or that with back to back AoE WHM will outshine AST still as they do not need to spend mana to heal really big AoE attacks back to back.

How were they gutted they lost nothing skills xD I do not think you know what the term gutted is!

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White Mage has the LEAST amount of spells now after the changes, and lost Divine Seal, Esuna, Protect and Cleric Stance. They had NO replacements to those skills, so right now White Mage has been gutted. We now have the least amount of actions of any job in the game. If you can't see what a crappy predicament white mage is in and still seek to claim AST has it's problems compared to it, you're delusional.

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Originally Posted by 13unny

So they have the weaker aoe heal in terms of time. No point in say SCH because they can do that for both sides....

You didn't address that the 900 potency heal is weaker in terms of WHM aoe timed heal. Or that with back to back AoE WHM will outshine AST still as they do not need to spend mana to heal really big AoE attacks back to back.

How were they gutted they lost nothing skills xD I do not think you know what the term gutted is!

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I'm not even sure how to respond to this.

Yes, the WHM heal over time aoe. Not an instant 900-1000 potency heal.

Anyone who doesn't see what is going on is clueless and has never played a healer or is trolling beyond belief.

With the changes the already excluded WHM is being completely removed from raid groups now.

Can you decrease the CD of cleric stance to 60 seconds instead of 90? Or increase its % to 10?

To be fair, Earthly Star discussion shouldn't even be about the timing. You can just drop and instantly explode it for a 675 AoE heal that is already stronger than Assize, Indom and even Cure III. The 900 potency after 10s is fine.

I also would like to adress the lack of abilities that low level players will have. After 4.0
The abilities for lvl 6, 8, 15, 34, 38
Trait lvl 36
Job lvl 40
You also take away fluid aura which is 150 potency at level 15 and add nothing else of value.
The lvl 8 to 40 gap needs to be relooked at. Especially for dungeons like Qarn, Cutters cry, Brayfox when it comes to new players. How is this not being addressed..
There is issues with low and high level White Mage. I outright think the levels and kit needs to be relooked at not only for level 70s but for new players as well who are just starting out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vaelin

White Mage has the LEAST amount of spells now after the changes, and lost Divine Seal, Esuna, Protect and Cleric Stance. They had NO replacements to those skills, so right now White Mage has been gutted. We now have the least amount of actions of any job in the game. If you can't see what a crappy predicament white mage is in and still seek to claim AST has it's problems compared to it, you're delusional.

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Protect, Cleric Stance, Esuna, and Divine Seal are still there. So not really gutted, only two of those were really used mid fight and well both got buffed lol
If talk core class skills WHM only really got Swiftcast from old tree. Virus and EfE were bad on them since they didn't have the trait. So they gained so much more power from before! I mean SCH lost upgraded Virus/EfaE/Esuna. Was already stupid astro and nothing to share so they stay in the same boat where as now it is more even across the board!

Again WHM wasn't gutted in terms of skills, Hurts more when AST/SCH both lost Aero. On top of that since WHM has so many mana regen skills now they do not have to take Lucid Dreaming and can simply take Largesse where AST/SCH might not able to even take that if Esuna becomes a thing or Rescue.